DOES HE FIT THE CHECKLIST ON PREDATORS?

If I am honest with myself, I must admit that yes --- YWL is severely disordered pathological.
 

Characteristics of a Pathological/Abuser

• superficial charm
• self-centered
• prone to boredom
• deceptive behavior & lying
• conning & manipulative
• little remorse or guilt
• shallow emotional response
• callous lack of empathy
• living off others
• predatory
• poor self-control
• sexually promiscuous
• early behavioral problems
• impulsive lifestyle
• irresponsible behavior
• blaming you for their actions
• truly believes his own lies
• will turn his friends on you
• enlists others to harass you

SOURCE

 I have never harrassed Jeff. I did what I did to help his wife, his family and HIM. No matter what he thinks or tells others -- I am right with myself about what I did. One day I hope, he will reopen the line of communication with me in an HONEST way. I will write CHECK if Mr. Dunetz fits this checklist So let's see if he fits, shall we?

 

 

• The other type of emotionally unavailable man is unavailable due to his relationship (or relationships) with another woman (or women). These guys are never really committed to a woman. They don't see any relationship as necessarily permanent, including marriage - even if they give lip service to being "deeply committed" to the woman they are with at the moment. CHECK!  
• In truth, however, they don't truly value their intimate relationships or take them seriously, because they are merely "playing," even though engagement or marriage hardly seems like something to "play" at. They don't take their relationships seriously because on some level - even if subconciously - they know they can find someone else who will get involved with them if their current affair ends. What else would cause someone to repeatedly play his future like a crapshoot without really fearing the outcome? CHECK! ...
• It is probably because women keep attempting to get close to him that causes him to keep moving from partner to partner or to keep adding partners. He is uninterested in experiencing or is unable to experience deep feelings of connection with anyone. CHECK! (YWL told me in April 2002 that he "can't feel." This changed once he decided to move in on me to "I can't do sex without an emotional connection." You pick the true statement.) ...
• What is dangerous about emotionally unavailable men is that they are not authentically emotionally responsive. They are emotionally avoidant. CHECK! ...Some of these men may have a sexual addiction that fuels their pursuit of rapidly revolving, superficial relationships. Perhaps his sexual addiction takes the form of chronic and compulsive pornography use, a pattern that will diminish a man's normal human responsiveness. CHECK! ...
• be aware that [this type of man] will paint himself as a devoted father and husband or as an upstanding citizen of his community. Never discount the possibility that your emotionally unavailable man may have multiple hidden lives (always the case if he's engaging in clandestine extramarital affairs) as well as being an emotional predator. For example: emotional unavailability, plus life he keeps hidden from you, his wife or his girlfriend, plus the keen sixth sense of an emotional predator, plus a sexual addiction - help these pathological men thrive at attracting serial superficial relationships. CHECK! CHECK! 
• If he is a sexual addict as well he will have a hidden life of endless porn watching, masturbation, voyeurism, and even using prostitutes. Many times these men will cover their perversions with heavy involvement in community politics, their church or synagogue or doing volunteer work. And they will make sure this cover is very visible so no one suspects. CHECK!!  
• Sexually addicted predators will not stop at you, they will go after your friends as well. They think nothing of telling your friend that you mean nothing to them and that you are possibly "imagining" the relationship. They will tell their wives the same things about you or any other woman they know insisting "she's jealous of us and is obsessed with me." They are masterful jugglers of time and people. CHECK! ...
• a woman's availability itself is a deciding factor... "any port in a storm" will provide adequate distraction from the reality of his life. CHECK!! (the fact he had so much time on his hands due to unemployment... do the math. If he'd really had such fond memories of me? He would have looked me up YEARS before. All he saw was my name and that 'hey, maybe she'll fuck me for free since I'm unemployed right now' light went off in his head.)  
• In addition to finding women who are available, these men have to locate women who are willing to violate their own emotional, sexual and ethical standards... So his challenge is to find women who, with a little encouragement will deny their values and boundaries and partake. CHECK! (once YWL knew how I'd felt about him all that time, he pushed for about 5-6 weeks (back & forth) ... and threw on the love bombing and NLP - I struggled but I simply couldn't withstand the onslaught in my state of mind. My trauma counselors told me this! In August 2004 they had to "deprogram" me!)  
• Womanizers also look for women who will believe their stories about their home life. Very few of them tell women how happy they are at home, how wonderful their wife is, and how they just really want to have extramarital sex with no strings attached. No, that usually isn't the story line. The story line goes: "No one has ever really loved me, and certainly not my wife. She nags... doesn't appreciate me... hates sex..." CHECK!!!  
• Women take this hook too often. ...they will be able to make him "finally feel loved... listened to... appreciated." His need is not "once and for all to be loved" as much as it is to get laid, be amused and be distracted. CHECK!  
• A womanizer may be highly verbal about his relationships. He may share personal information in such a way that women mistake his sharing for emotional intimacy... He knows well enough that women are empathic to tales of empty and sad relationships... CHECK! (does regaling me with stories of his sexual romps with his ex-fiance and even telling me about he and his wife having sex count? And because he could have CARED LESS about me - he took real pleasure in 'twisting the knife' into me since he knew he'd hooked me and then told me "I decided. We aren't going to have sex." Also - No boundaries, my freeze response and making me feel like crap - he hit the trifecta. He'd never EVER given me a chance at a real friendship!)  
• Such men are successful when they find women who are unhappy in their own relationships. CHECK!!!!!!!!!  
• An interesting point is that almost every woman who told us her story about getting involved with an emotionally unavailable man said it happened at a time when her self-esteem was low. [She] was coming out of a relationship situation that had damaged her self-esteem (such as being abused or even going through a divorce). Women accept far more during times of low self-esteem than they do when their self-esteem is sound. A belief that she doesn't deserve a whole, satisfying and healthy relationship is a reflection of how low her self-esteem is. If a man gives a woman who suffers with low-self esteem a little attention... then too often she willingly falls [for him]. CHECK!! (My counselors all told me this same thing! But wait!, Jeff said I "went into this with my eyes open" .. ssshhhhuuurrrreee )

'I am now sorry for the pain I caused his family. Even if his wife never found out, I hurt her... which I had no business [doing]." - Ali CHECK

"These men aren't looking for love; they are looking for a distraction from what THEY really are." - Jamie CHECK!

~~~  

• The emotional predator is as bad as it gets. He qualifies as the pinnacle of poisonous and pathological... He could, in fact, be called the "emotional psychic." That's because it's his ability to intuit and sense a woman's emotional vulnerabilities that places her at risk. Webster's defines predatory as "having a disposition to injure or exploit others for one's own gain; it defines predator as "one that preys, destroys or devours." That's a good summation of this man. Who but the most pathological among us would set out to exploit, prey on, destroy or devour? CHECK!! 
• He will hone in on your vulnerabilities and read you. If he likes what he reads, he will follow up by luring you into his scary and dangerous life. CHECK!  
• Predators have a natural ability for reading women who are lonely, bored, needy by nature, emotionally wounded or vulnerable. The predator also has his antennae up for women who... have unfulfilled needs in their lives. ...he figures out how he can squeeze into the vacant space in your life and what you need to hear in order to allow this to happen. CHECK! (he was never interested in me or my life. He was profiling me. He could have cared LESS!) ...
• [they] "sense" which woman will make the best target for them. They don't know why they have this gift or how they acquired it. ...they have been working women over since childhood. A predator's intuitive sixth sense is untaught. ...an adult's skills can't compete with his abilities to scam, con and conquer. CHECK! (bet I was a big ego boost too - and he laughed his ass off every time he left me dangling) ...
• emotional predators also fall into the mentally-ill category, usually under the diagnosis of antisocial personality disorder. Most also have hidden lives. When you couple a predator's natural instincts with a lifetime of skills honed by successfully conning, exploiting and injuring women, you have a man who is nothing short of extraordinarily smooth and capable of horrific dangerousness. CHECK  
• Predators' motives vary. But you can be sure a predator wants something from you. That is the entire reason for the relationship. ...There is something in you that he wants. Maybe "all" he wants is your utter adoration or for you to exalt his ego. ...Maybe wants what you can provide to help establish his image so he will marry you ('good family man'). Or maybe ...he's most interested in the pursuit and conquest of a woman... If he is a sexual predator, you are a target, whether it be for consensual sex or rape - depending on whichever way it plays out or whatever mood he is in. CHECK!( Heavy on the consensual for him... but he won't admit he used emotional coercion and lies to accomplish one thing = emotional rape. Heaven forbid YWL be accused of wrongdoing... ohhhh noooo)  
• A predator does not "need" the relationship. Early on... the predator is deliberately romantic. Predators are shifting chameleons who can be all things to all women. Predators are smooth as silk. ...predators are listeners who will give up very little information until they are sure it will align with your history. ...His selection is based on his need and your vulnerability. He knows it's a matter of matching need with need. The more he knows about your needs, the better he can meet them. CHECK! (he didn't even like me, in fact he hates me and ALWAYS HAS. What I don't get is when he had money to go back to the hookers and then Elizabeth... WHY all the times I tried to pull away or leave the relationship did he reel me back in? The only explanation could be that he liked raping my mind and toying with my emotions to amuse himself. If YWL meant what he left on my answering machine "I want to see you & talk to you. I don't want to lose you out of my life. You mean too much to me" - no matter what he would have done something to see me and talk to me. Even now. Yet he'd rather smear and block me. BTW, I was never 'IN' his life -- despite my repeated efforts to MAKE THE FRIENDSHIP WORK and get away from his sex-obession when he chatted with me!)  
• He has a nose for vulnerability, so women who have unmet needs "smell" especially good to him. He seeks women who need men who can "sense and know" them on almost a spiritual level. Since he is good at this, he will appear to know you well - and quickly. CHECK! (and the fact we knew each other from earlier in our lives & were intimate? What a coup!)  
• They like women who had absent fathers, angry mothers or neglectful and abusive husbands. Knowing that many women are trained to believe that people are basically good at heart, predators will present themselves as men of honor and virtue.... But because he is a chameleon, he will listen closely to see if you also need a mentor, an adviser on some topic, a spiritual leader, or a male friend. CHECK!!!  
• During counseling sessions I've had with men who are emotional predators, some have verbalized their targets. One said, "I look for naive women. I like a certain vulnerability to her - that she trusts humanity without asking for proof. Maybe she's been hurt a lot so there's a "woundedness" to her. That vulnerability makes them believe you, because they need to believe you." CHECK.  
• Another said, "I like the mentally weak - women who have been pounded down by men and those with childhoods that weren't so good. They are particularly easy." CHECK.  
• It is important to understand that each predator has developed his own unique style. He has a "type" or two of women he prefers because with those types he has mastered the approach, the dating, and the 'end.' He doesn't have to think very hard if he just uses the profile he's had success with. One predator may prefer recently divorced or divorcing women because he succeeds at playing that angle with them. CHECK (most probably) ... 
• these guys can show a woman they definitely "get it." They show you all the attention that the jerks you've been with haven't. They say all the right lines that the men in your past could never verbalize. They are brilliant and insightful about what you need. They seem to know exactly every pain you have suffered. CHECK!  
• With more skill than a carnival psychic, the emotional predator can hone in on your every need, sympathize with you in such a way so that you believe you've met your long lost soulmate and sweep you off your feet... He's... more insightful than a therapist. He "knows" you the way no one else ever has. CHECK! (hell yes)  
• This guy moves FAST. He's got to - before you figure out what his M.O. is. Every woman should be suspect of the relationships that seem to be traveling in the fast lane on the super-highway of emotional intimacy. A predator needs to keep you so euphoric with compliments and lover's talk that you aren't listening, or paying attention. He is dripping with sincerity and clinging to every word you say. A predator wants to consummate the relationship with you right away, because time is against him. CHECK! (YWL wanted me in bed with him almost immediately. Thank God I kept hedging and asking questions and demanding he slow down and be normal with me... even though he didn't. With all the "I couldn't control myself if I saw you," "just talking to you is making me h*rd... I am usually not that sensitive," "you make me feel like Stanley Kowalski" -- what horsesh*t! "I have to f*ck you soon"
  Or what he told Shira "I had to pull away from Barbara, the sexual tension was making me crazy." Really - what tension would THAT be YWL? The fact that my ex-husband found out so it was no longer convenient? Or that you didn't want to help me even though I was getting beat up on a daily basis because of you? Or could it be that I disgusted you so thoroughly and you were just having a big laugh at my profound expense? Or was it even that I was just asking too many pointed questions and you knew I was starting to figure you real motives out?) 
•  To move the relationship along and be indispensable to you, he must act helpful, comforting and generous. Since he is working against the clock, he must find out what you need and then meet that need. CHECK (see above)  
• While listening to you and observing you, he will glean a lot of information about your hobbies, interests, spiritual beliefs and value systems. He is the original identity thief. He uncovers and uses for his own purposes everything he can about what makes you - YOU. He will find you amazing, beautiful, bright and talented - like no one he has EVER met before. He will align how he portrays himself with your needs and also your interests until you feel like you are looking at your twin. CHECK!! ("you were the most talented person I ever knew," "your breasts were always my favorite," "I loved being with you," "you aren't that fat, you are still very very lovely" hahahaha!)  
• Finally, another way predators succeed with women is by preying on their compassion. Once a woman is in the grip of a predator, anything can happen. CHECK!!! (read this site for that one)  
• [Once a woman sees their stories] for the crock they are and bust them for their fake opinions with them, they will try and turn the table and make it seem it was the woman who had emotional problems! CHECK! (read post "he said" on this site. And does blocking me and refusing to speak to me with excuses like "it will hurt my wife" or "talking wouldn't do either of us any good" - um, YWL? LET ME THINK FOR MYSELF. I deserve better and actually, so do you & your family & friends)  

So, how did YWL do on the predator checklist? 100%? Wow!

ONE FOR YOU, YIDWITHLID:

 hotnewskates (IP: 68.199.197.157 , ool-44c7c59d.dyn.optonline.net) E-mail : twisterjoker@gmail.com 
URL : Whois : http://ws.arin.net/cgi-bin/whois.pl?queryinput=68.199.197.157
It sort of seems that you have created a system/checklist basically freeing yourself from any wrongdoing in the relationship at any level (I just glanced, but am I wrong in saying that you were the other half of an affair? Is only one person in a relationship responsible for the actions that need two people?) Are you just saying that you are an innocent sheep, never getting your own needs or desires met? Honestly from what you've written, it seems like you got entangled in a relationship that didn't end up as you would of liked, and because you didn't get the desired result, are thus bitter. Unless you are of some superhuman moral absolution, you have to admit that your own personal bias and resentment and residual feelings are intertwined into the overall message of this post. Or maybe I just haven't encountered a psychopath. Or maybe I am one? Or maybe I'm with one? What a scam.

~~~~~~~~  
Looks like Jeff Dunetz(aka hotnewskates above) or one of his sycophants paid me a visit!  LOL 
So I am posting this because it shows so clearly the selective machinations most Pathologicals show when called on their nonsense: 
1. I didn't create that checklist, brainiac Please tell me where you got YOUR medical degree?
2. I never didn't take responsibility at any time. Typical Pathological attempts to pick out one 'sore spot' (not sore at all, LOL) and pick at it. Obviously you can't read... or simply don't want to educate yourself. Amazing what arrogance & stupidity together sounds like!
3. My "needs"? Sounds suspiciously like Jeff... or one of his proxies. I had NO NEEDS when I was first contacted and none of my real needs were met in any way, shape or form. YWL/Jeff never befriended me, never allowed me to meet his family or vice versa, never was honest or real with me in any way and never treated me as a human being with respect, empathy and consideration. So no, none of my needs were met. I was brainwashed to meet HIS needs and his needs only. Nice to feel like an object who has no right to feel used or abused. This was not about my needs in ANY WAY.
4. My understanding and integrating that I was brainwashed, lured & groomed comes from the counseling and help I received at a clinic for people with severe PTSD and at least 3 well-known therapists in Trauma. I suggest you take up the 'accountability' issue with them. Oh and be sure you take your Medical Degree with you when you do.
5. If my 'personal bias' as you call it, includes supporting women through the PTSD and aftermath of relationships with Pathologicals, preventing suicides and educating men & women about pathology and it's effect on all our lives... as well as the 100s of thankful emails I have gotten then I say - gimme' more of THAT kind of bias & scam!
6. Bitter? Nah. No longer naive, no longer trusting, no longer dating and dealing with permanent, diagnosed PTSD? sure. Moving on and using what I have learned to validate, support & inform others? Absolutely!
Isn't that scorned woman, bunny boiler, stalker stuff getting kind of old? I don't have that kind of time to spend on a soulless predator... I'd rather use the knowledge to help others, it's much more gratifying. So go ahead friends, let educate this Cluster B poster... if we can! Or is this merely projection and another Pathological's gaslighting scam?
Most reputable therapists & psychiatrists are stopping that BLAME THE VICTIM mentality now... and the "it takes 2 to tango" baloney... thank GOD it was explained to me and I was shown how I was methodically and diabolically used, manipulated, brainwashed, hypnotized and so on... before you throw accusations get your facts straight. Don't believe me - read some of the other comments here.

Really hurts to find out you're a PREDATOR who PREYS on real human beings, doesn't it. I'd be happy to recommend a place to get help... unless you see nothing wrong with using and abusing people this way. Unless you ARE one and you see nothing wrong with exploiting people like objects, using women for sex objects and having zero empathy for them when you throw them away like used tissues.

cindibear@yahoo.com 98.14.11.174 2009-11-06 21:25:40 2009-11-07 02:25:40 - <![CDATA["The ]]> 1 0 0NPD (Narcissistic Personality Disorder) illusion of superiority is a facet of a generalized disdain for reality. These individuals feel unconstrained by rules, customs, limits, and discipline. Their world is filled with self-fiction in which conflicts are dismissed, failures redeemed, and self-pride is effortlessly maintained. They easily devise plausible reasons to justify self-centered and inconsiderate behavior. Their memories of past relationships are often illusory and changing. If rationalizations and self-deception fail, individuals with NPD are vulnerable to dejection, shame, and a sense of emptiness. Then they have little recourse other than fantasy. They have an uninhibited imagination and engage in self-glorifying fantasies. What is unmanageable through fantasy is repressed and kept from awareness. As they consistently devalue others, they do not question the correctness of their own beliefs; they assume that others are wrong. The characteristic difficulties of individuals with NPD almost all stem from their lack of solid contact with reality. If the false image of self becomes substantive enough, their thinking will become peculiar and deviant. Then their defensive maneuvers become increasingly transparent to others" (Millon & Davis, 1996, pp. 405-423). Sharon C. Ekleberry -- Dual Diagnosis and the Narcissistic Personality Disorder. -

One of two possibilities:
1. The "person" who wrote the commentary is either unaware or ignorant about the impact a pathological can have on a non-pathological and this "person" lacks the necessary knowledge and insight to understand that impact.
2. The "person" who wrote the commentary is a mutant mole, also known as a personality disordered creature and can't stand for the "light" of truth to be revealed. After all, moles scurry underground in the dirt and darkness and are completely blind. The "moles" of either species cause tremendous damage. But the damage caused by the furry kind with huge paws and sunken beady eyes can be easily repaired.
On the other hand, the damage caused by the mutant mole is usually permanent.
Yes, it does take 2 to Tango...but the pathological starts out Tap Dancing and never stops!! The pathological tap-dances around every issue, every feeling, every truth, and everyone!!on.xxx@btinternet.com 78.149.53.104 2009-11-07 18:10:29 2009-11-07 23:10:29 - Do I smell a RAT? Well, from what I read in the post above from "hotnewskates", it sure seems that way... I'm certain that the author is either the said "rat" OR one of his sychophants with that same old, "she asked for it" crap the predators spoon-feed them with.....Blah-di-di-blah-di-blah!!!! If it wasn't so sickening, it would be funny!

Who the hell do you think you are!? All Barbara did was TRUST that piece of crap! And, after she got through the initial painful trauma of the wicked things which were done to her, with what little energy she could muster decided to help other women who have been through something similar to her. Women like me! This lady is at the total opposite end of the moral spectrum to the vile creature who used and manipulated her.

Don't you understand, SHE WAS ABUSED BY HIM TO SUCH A DEGREE SHE NEEDED MEDICAL INTERVENTION!? If you are one of the cyberpath's "sympathisers", maybe you could do us all a favour and keep your pathetic, ignorant opinions to yourself! OR, if you are actually "IT", then you can expect your karma bus to pull up any minute! You know something? You're not fit to fasten her laces! YUK!
tiffanys1184@hotmail.com 76.186.158.243 2009-11-08 15:47:47 2009-11-08 20:47:47 - How transparent skater-dude! Wow, you obviously know NOTHING about the horror of being involved with a pathologically disordered person. Perhaps because you are one yourself?? I find it very interesting how you seem to be personally attacking the blogger's story as if it had something to do with you. Otherwise, why would you be here, with an obvious chip on your shoulder instead of a calm, intellectual debate?
Go back to your victimizing of those who don't know better, poor things that they are

psychopathnextdoor@googlemail.com http://masksofsanity.blogspot.com 84.13.173.244 2009-11-08 15:49:42 2009-11-08 20:49:42 -
This sounds like a typical reaction (email) from somebody who A: has no empathy or B: Doesn't understand what a psychopath is, nor how devastating it is to be in a relationship with one. or C: is one themselves.
The commenter obviously has no idea how manipulative the narcissist/sociopath can be. We -- as the discarded targets of said sociopaths -- do NOT desire a perfect, on cloud 9, flying ponies shitting rainbows relationship, we wanted a relationship that was 2 sided in it's giving/taking capabilities. We wanted and strived to treat the narcissist how we wanted to be treated. We all know a relationship isn't perfect, we all have our own issues and wrongdoings, we admit these, freely. We are not blind , and we all know fully well that the dreamy hollywood love isn't real. We don't have unrealistic expectations! It is give and take , not take take take which is what a narcissist lives by.
The narcissist lives his life using fiction - LIES We as the targets/victims live with reality - TRUTH. And finally, we as the discarded targets of sociopaths spent the entire relationship admitting we were wrong, apologizing, appeasing, giving, loving, pleading, begging and forgiving. Even when we were not the guilty party.
So no one has the right to stand up and point fingers at us accusing us of being unrealistic, guilty and irresponsible.

The Courage of Confrontation and Accountability Contrasted with the Hostility of Accusation and Blame

by Michele Toomey, PhD 
michele@mtoomey.com

A confrontation takes courage for many reasons, not the least of which is the self-revelation it requires. In a confrontation, we make a deliberate decision to reveal in an honest, straight forward way, how something has affected us.

 

We are always vulnerable when we reveal how we have reacted to something that has been said or done to us. Sharing our reflections on what we are thinking and feeling as we ponder our reactions is a very intimate process. It means leaving ourselves unprotected as we tell the person we are confronting how they have hurt, angered, intimidated, insulted, or disappointed us. 

If they cannot hear what we are saying without getting defensive and attacking us, we are vulnerable to their hostile reaction. If, on the other hand, they treat the information we've shared in a respectful way, an exchange can take place and self-revealing by both the confronter and the confronted can lead to greater understanding of each other. Needless to say, we would hope the latter response would occur, but, the risk is there and the uncertainty is another reason why we need courage to confront. The potentially hot situation of confronting another can easily backfire or explode. Both the confronter and the confronted must be willing to reveal and claim why they said and/or did certain things that are hard to claim. Both must be courageous and honest and dare let go of their defensiveness or any other self-protective mechanism as they dare reveal themselves so they can understand and be understood. They must reveal what was going on for them that prompted them to say or do what they did. A confrontation is an encounter that takes place on fair grounds between equals, and it requires that both the confronter and the one being confronted expose what they were thinking and feeling when the exchange took place and be accountable for those thoughts and feelings.  

Accountability is an essential ingredient in a confrontation. It keeps the confrontation honest and fair. To be accountable is to claim one's part and in the claiming to begin to understand what needs to change in order to interact fairly and respectfully. If a confrontation is successful, the honest accountability and the clarity it brings, will move things in such a way that the issue at hand can be dealt with differently. Greater understanding of what's going on for both the confronter and the confronted will lead to greater respect and care for their feelings. This, of course, yields an intimacy that allows relationships to become a special gift to be treasured. 

  Confrontation requires courage but it can yield the very desired results of deep intimacy with true caring and mutual respect. Since a confrontation calls for exposing a deeper level of one's self in an interaction, it addresses what's going on for a person underneath the words being spoken. It is not a conversation about the content of what is being said, but about one's relationship to what is being said. It begins by having the confronter reveal the underlying thoughts and feelings she/he had in response to what was said or done, and then moves to the one being confronted. The one being confronted is then called on to respond on that same level, and reveal what was going on for him/her when the exchange took place. As the conversation goes back and forth on this deeper level, each person continues to claim what was going on for them and be accountable for how they expressed themselves when unspoken thoughts and feelings were being triggered by the exchange. The conversation goes back and forth with revealing, claiming and accountability on each person's part, providing clarity and understanding of what was going on for each person. The confrontation ends with accountability being established for the thoughts and feelings and words and behaviors that contributed to the confusion, hurt, anger or fear experienced by either person. As an outgrowth of the clarity that comes from claiming what was going on underneath the words or the behavior being confronted, a certain intimacy occurs between the persons participating in the confrontation. They have communicated on a deeper level, closer to their core, and they are better known to each other as a result of the confrontation.


Future encounters should reflect what has been understood and learned from the confrontation. There should be accountability marked by mutual respect for what has occurred. This sets the stage for further encounters that are not as potentially stressful or hurtful, and not as dependent on intimidation or blame. Accountability calls for claiming with respect and fair play whatever goes on, went on in the past, or occurs in the future. It does not stop with one confrontation, it only begins there.  

In contrast, an accusation rips away at the other person's layers of protection and attributes bad motives to what lies underneath. The purpose is to blame, judge and punish. It yields defensiveness and guilt, and has neither fairness or respect in it. Instead of an exchange, it is an attack. Battle lines are drawn and casualties occur. Rather than an encounter between equals, it is a power struggle to establish the superiority of the victor and the inferiority of the defeated. Someone wins and someone loses. Righteous indignation rather than respectful exploration characterizes an accusatory attack. Intimacy and clarity are never an outgrowth of such antagonism. In an accusation, attack and blame call forth defensiveness and counter attack. Ridicule, sarcasm and anger are the weapons, and the encounter leaves the embattled participants gloating or guilty. If guilty, then there is shame and punishment to deal with, not accountability and integrity. Communication is not the purpose of accusation and communication does not transpire. Altercation does. It is, therefore, not acceptable to rely on accusation and blame to protect ourselves from feelings of hurt, confusion, fear or anger. 

However, neither is it acceptable to just ignore what we are feeling and then build up resentment and walls. The withdrawal that results from not addressing unresolved feelings is also a hostile act. It is both hostile to the one withdrawing and to the one being withdrawn from, because it closes the door to one's self and to others at a time when conversation to resolve the feelings needs to take place. Intimacy can not occur when unresolved feelings are left unaddressed and a protective distance behind a silent stony wall separates the self from itself and from others. The barrier is not a friendly one. It is meant to keep something and someone out. Feeling shut out and shut off when the integrity of our system calls for being connected and flowing in and out means our system is violated by the withdrawal of communication within ourselves. It also means that the other relevant person who is being shut out is being violated as well. There can be no understanding or intimacy without communication and the alienation that occurs with a "shut out" is uncomfortable or even painful if the person values intimacy. Unfortunately, a withdrawer has had to shut itself down in order to find safety in withdrawal. It may seem to the withdrawers that there is no price to shutting down, but what they will one day discover is that they are no longer able to be present.

That is a painful outcome. They are, therefore,eventually only a shell of themselves, alienated, never intimate with any depth of intensity because they have systematically shut themselves off to their own intensity. The first violation of shutting down, therefore, is to the self who shuts down. The subsequent violation, however, is to the other who desires intimacy with the withdrawn person. Withdrawal is the ultimate weapon. No intimacy can occur as long as the withdrawer stays withdrawn. The only recourse is to withdraw as well. This resolves the issue, but at a great cost, an alienating distance that cannot be bridged by anyone but the one who chose it, leaving others powerless. It is, therefore, in our best interest to learn to confront and to be confronted, and to be accountable and demand accountability. We can then experience intimacy with ourselves and others in a way that fulfills our greatest need, the need for knowing and being known, for caring and being cared for, and for feeling a true sense of belonging and intimacy. Neither accusation or withdrawal will provide this. So once again life takes courage. In this instance, the courage to confront.

http://www.mtoomey.com/courage.html

FULL DISCLOSURE

I want to be crystal clear about why I did this blog:  

BECAUSE I GOT SICK OF BEING LIED ABOUT.

My friends kept telling me to stop ignoring it - so I did. Now that I have done it, its out. (And NO I will NOT publish YWL's hooker reviews. Throwing up in the ladies room at 1 Police Plaza was enough for me with those.)

I got tired of his projection -  calling me a harasser, a stalker and a liar. Not because it hurts but because when it's PROVEN he lied? He just gets louder and more caustic and more hurtful to others.

I have nothing to hide except my naive and trusting nature. There have been some things said about me. I could say YWL's post is more full of slander and b.s. than Fox News... but I won't.

• Things said about my credibility and what appeared to be my actions:
• - If, as asserted, YWL and his wife did hire computer consultants? They need a refund.
• - I never got a police warrant, a cease & desist or anything from any lawyer, ISP or anyone, anywhere at anytime. If you think I did, please show me the document I would have HAD to have signed for legal delivery. Please. I'd like to see it.
• I did hear from Suffolk County Police - when I was BETWEEN hospital stays. I told them everything. (re: Det. D'Agnostino and Sgt. Best, Huntington Station Police Department, NY)

Also, I should mention that his "detective friend" who was investigating me for "harassment" was very very shocked to find out I am disabled. The detective even called my doctor to confirm (he asked me for her number).  

Det. D'agnostino called me back and wanted to know if YWL knew I was disabled. I told him ABSOLUTELY he was very aware, my ex-husband had chats where we talked about it and sent them to him along with the IP confirmations. He called me and was quite surprised. I distinctly remember him telling me he had no idea because I had been presented as one step away from being a violent stalker. 

He also had no idea I was estranged, a parent with two young children either. I repeatedly invited the Detective to come and I would take him to lunch or breakfast because I was too ill to drive to Suffolk County (which my doctor confirmed). He turned me down.  

I also sent them the confirmation obtained from Classmates.com that YWL paid for a membership to get some emails - mine included - and he contacted ME. I was not "stalking him for years" as he's been telling his friends. 

I had no idea where he'd been after we lost touch in 1976 nor did I care until HE contacted me.    

His Sargeant (Sgt. Best) later called to say it was dropped because they couldn't find any corroboration that I was harassing or stalking YWL and his wife. (seen below)

    

But I was followed to a support group by YWL and he checked my blog for weeks... by YWL. (see post on this blog "Stalker or Just Checkin' "). 

WHY did YWL do that? AFRAID OF WHAT OR WHO I WOULD TELL???? - I really have no idea why someone who found me so "pathetic" and "a nutjob" spent his time following me around to SUPPORT GROUPS? Then called ME a 'stalker who has been after him for years'....

ROFL! Wait! I get it. BEING ON a support group for victims just PROVES I am a "nutjob" right? And going to the hospital for vomiting so bad I burned a hole in my esophagus or for PTSD just PROVES I am "crazy", RIGHT?? 

Accusations have been made. I was journaling here just for myself but many people told me to make it public. I would only do so without causing any further harm to the man (whom I will only refer to as YWL herein) and his family, any of the women I counsel, or innocent parties. I am going to make it very clear, including hard proofs, where I stand and why. 

Accuse me and malign me. Its ok. God knows the truth - I have no reason to turn myself inside out to prove myself to anyone. I have zero to hide Some friends suggested that YWL is still seeing Elizabeth and has gone back to a new brothel. That may or may not be true. I don't know. Its not my business to know.

And let me make this clear: Revenge is wrong, harassment is sick and wrong. Talk to God and if you need psychological help - get it. ________________________________________________________________  

Below is just one of the many emails I sent to "exposure" sites where YWL was posted - with his real name and sometimes his personal information! I have redacted same. 

From: Ms Barbara C [mailto:barbarany_9@xxxxx.com]
Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2007 1:21 PM
Subject: Mr. JXXX Dxxxxz, gridney, yidwithlid - posted on your site

To Whom It May Concern:
I must respectfully request that your remove the above mention person from your site or database immediately. I did not make this post but someone. My reasons are detailed below:

I am now a domestic violence advocate. About 5 years ago I got coerced into a very cruel & inappropriate relationship by an old friend from college. It was a very stupid decision in a very dark period of my life. There was another woman involved and I have not heard from her since a short time after the incident.

The trauma from the ending of this wrongful relationship put me inthe hospital, in counseling, in touch with other survivors. Should you need to contact Mr. DXXXtz to verify this or forward this email to him for comment, his blog says his new address is yidwithlid@XXXX.com.

He may construe this as some further harassment on my part.

If you would like to speak to me, I can provide you with my number and full name and location. Thank you for your help in advance.

Barbara
_________________

From: <admin@cheatersexpose.com>
>To: "'Ms Barbara C'" <barbarany_9@.com>
>Subject: RE: Mr. Jxxx DXXXtz, gridney, yidwithlid - posted on your site
>Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2007 14:05:28 -0600
>MIME-Version: 1.0 >Received: from nat.nationwidehosting.org ([74.52.90.194]) by bay0-mc5-f21.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.2668); Tue, 6 Mar 2007 12:05:42 -0800

>Received: from adsl-68-93-121-242.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net ([68.93.121.242] helo=desktop)by nat.nationwidehosting.org with esmtpa (Exim 4.63)(envelope-from <admin@cheatersexpose.com>)id 1HOfun-0001Kw-Llfor barbarany_9@xxx.com; Tue, 06 Mar 2007 14:05:19 -0600 >X-Message-Info: LsUYwwHHNt3660MmjhEvYg2f34OAemlK3oXsmRrh6gU= >X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 >Thread-Index: AcdgJQ/jZNR9DafURhywR2/mEpWBjQABRhhQ >X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 >X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report >X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - nat.nationwidehosting.org >X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - hotmail.com >X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] >X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - cheatersexpose.com >X-Source: >X-Source-Args: >X-Source-Dir: >Return-Path: admin@cheatersexpose.com >X-OriginalArrivalTime: 06 Mar 2007 20:05:43.0129 (UTC) FILETIME=[D1FD7490:01C7602A] >

>Barbara,

> >The post was not made by you, and the poster never alleged to be you. The IP was different as was the full ISP number.

>The posting has been removed since we received your >request and proof that this was confidential material possessed by you and NYPD.
>I hope you are getting your life together.
>Administrator, >Cheaters Expose >
_____

> To: admin@cheatersexpose.com

You are absolutely right.
I hope this serves as a cautionary tale that cheating hurts everyone.

I am not interested in dating at all. I have devoted my life to my children, helping others who have been cheated on & abuse victims and cleaving to God. Thank you for removing it. I will have to do more investigating to do to see how far this has gone.

Barbara

___________________________

I will write more about what happened - in the interest of FULL DISCLOSURE. This will include pertinent emails and so on - along with full headers from the emails to vouch for their voracity.

I will make this public if I decide to. I am sorry and thank you all for listening and reading. 

My father, of blessed memory - once told me his biggest problem was he was a bad liar. "No one likes a truth teller, Barbara."

So far he's been right.

I pray that somehow someone learns and the record set straight. I have always told the truth because I do believe the truth DOES set you free.

Barbara


#ifmywoundswerevisible

THE UGLY BYSTANDER

   

by Kathy Krajco
 

I think the misplaced sympathy out there for narcissists comes from people wishing to push unpleasant stuff out of their minds so that they have but selective awareness of an event like narcissistic abuse.

When we say that narcissists lack empathy, we mean exactly that. In plainer language, they are brutal, treating those they abuse subhumanly. Their callousness is something one must see to believe. Often the victim cannot get his or her mind around it and goes into a state of shocked disbelief of their own eyes and ears. When narcissists see that they are drawing blood, they get sadistic. This behavior makes no sense till you remember why narcissists do this. They are stomping you down to elevate themselves. In doing this, they are morally trampling you to have something to thump their chests about and give a Tarzan yell. They get HIGH on treating others like dirt. So, keep a tight grip on that fact: they don't do it because it's evil; they do it because it makes them feel good. They are sick in the head. They have unbearable pain/shame inside that keeps trying to surface to consciousness on them. This pretending to be grand by stomping you is just their way of killing that pain by keeping it repressed. Abuse is an addiction with narcissists. 

The more they degrade you, the bigger dose of this high they get. Which is why they are sadistic. So, here you have them abusing their victim in cold blood sadistically. Then, when the victim complains, they turn around with their little Wouldn't-Hurt-a-Fly mask on for the bystanders, whining about their need to "heal." Yes, THEIR need to heal. Some folks don't know a joke even when it slaps them in the face like that. Right out of the bystander's mind goes what's on the other side of that coin - what that angel-faced narcissist just did to that victim. 

In other words, they take this "Poor-Little-Me" act out of context. More important, the bystanders thus avoid having to know what they know about such phony face changes = that the narcissist is diabolical and laughing up his sleeve. All they let themselves see is whiny angel-face before them right now. Because it's warm and cuddly and doesn't rattle their cage or require them to do anything about anything. Or cross this guy they are suddenly afraid of. Ah, that whiny little angel-face he has, upon whom they misplace their wretched sympathy. Then they go off and correct the VICTIM for wrongdoing. Yes, that's right: some folks don't even know a joke when they tell it. The victim has sinned by feeling angry or wanting a divorce or wanting to retaliate so as to make the abuser stop it. THAT'S the only sin the ugly bystander sees. Nothing the narcissist did gets a peep out of him or her about it.

SOME EXCERPTED COMMENTS:

At 2:59 PM, Anonymous said...

I saw the same thing with my ex. She was very pushy, but if anyone ever pushed back, she became this huge victim. Same dynamic.Here is the thing I finally discovered: With this dynamic, you can never win and this technique keeps them from every growing and moving out of the narcissism. If every time they are challenged on some statement they make, they retreat into victimhood, it means that they are avoiding the substance of the argument. It is a truth avoidance mechanism. They aren't interested in any truth. They are only interested in being heard and and seen and if someone disagrees with them, then wilt into victimhood.As usual, it is always about image.   

At 3:45 PM, Anonymous said...

I've had some of these apologist bystanders in my life, and I have absolutely no use for them. In my opinion, they are the only ones in the room more cowardly than the narcissist.I have come to believe that when they take the narcissist's side because they are afraid of the him, at least half of them are trying to convince themselves that they are righteous, rather than afraid.They take the path of least resistance, and when they are giving you that "You overreacted" crap, they are trying to believe it themselves, so they can push down that voice inside them that says, "You're afraid of the bully, you're just a little coward."And they are little cowards, too, those bystanders. If it isn't your battle, fine, then stay out of it. Otherwise, shut the hell up. Don't try to calm me down or play peacemaker just to hide from your own discomfort.   

At 5:08 PM, Anonymous said...

Two-faced, relentless sadistic abuse and butter-wouldn't-melt con artistry sounds like the N I know. But you can't blame bystanders for not seeing when even the target of abuse is repeatedly taken in by the lies, denials and gaslighting.

At 5:50 PM, Kathy said...

"...you can't blame bystanders for not seeing..."Not seeing what? That he's insincere? I think you can blame them for that. And yes, the victim unsees too. Only because the victim doesn't WANT to see, not because it's hard to see as you imply.The victim has very strong temptation into denial. Much stronger than the byestander. Much better excuse.But even the victim will eventually face facts and tell you that he or she is angry with themselves for refusing to see what was staring them in the face. So where is the byestanders confession to that effect? And the bystander has no excuse for saying, "I'm going to the north pole" and turning to head off south. It's preposterous for their only criticism to be OF THE VICTIM. It's preposterous for their sympathy to be FOR THE VICTIMIZER. And I have too often said how absurd it is to regard feeling as a sin. There is no excuse for anti-logic. I understand the bystander's fear of the narcissist and fear of getting involved. That is legitimate. But then to turn around and find the only fault you find IN THE VICTIM - that deserves contempt. Virtually every victim gets this treatment from bystanders. Narcissists just play them like fiddles.   

At 12:21 AM, Anonymous said...

on the topic of bystanders trying to calm you down or be peacemakers...... When you've been targeted one too many times and actually speak up for yourself, suddenly the bystander is there trying to "make things better"Where were they before? That is the big question. Because they could have said something a multitude of times before, when all sorts of stuff was happening, but they didn't. They only say something when they can say it and feel like they know better, that they know more, that they are more mature, or have more insight into the world and human nature than you do. Some bystanders honestly want to make you feel better, because then they feel better; you know the type, the people pleasers. But I have found the majority of bystanders are in it for the moment of celebrity that they feel when they get to use there powerful problem solving and peacekeeping skills.What I hate about bystanders is that they actually try to make you quiet down, like its a crime to show any emotions good or bad. I would like a bystander to ackowlege the targeting, but if for some reason they are in denial about that, then really can't they just let you say your part. Why can't they be your witness and hear your story? Deal with the discomfort of knowing that there is "bad" people in this world. These are the same people that say "turn that frown upside down!" in a non ironic way.  

At 2:13 AM, Kathy said...

I think these comments about the bystanders nail it.Add it up: they do nothing to counter the abuse, only speaking up to stop the victim from feeling free to do anything to put a stop to it or even act like it is happening.Those actions speak louder than words. The bystanders take the evildoer's side. There is no denying that. That is contemptible, not matter how holy the halo they put on it.They are enablers of the abuser. Like accomplices who work the situation for him to allow him to keep getting away with it. They shut the victim up for him. They call the victim naughty for even just feeling his anger, thus helping crush the victim into abject submission to the abuse. The term "innocent bystander" is an oxymoron. Like Hitler, narcissists know they can count on a high percentage of people to do this for him if he just puts on his whiny victim mask so that they can PRETEND they are righteous, not traitors betraying you to abuse. After studies of the contemptible behavior of the bystanders during the Holocaust, an inscription was placed on a monument to it (in Israel I think) that says something to the effect: 'Never again be a victim; never be a perpetrator; and never, never, never be a bystander.' Amen. Bystanders suck. To make them stop blaming the victim for rape, society had to make it politically incorrect to do so. It's about time society did the same thing with all forms of abuse. Bystanders won't stop serving as a proxy for abusers till people get slammed for doing it.  

At 3:50 AM, Anonymous said...

Witness the shameful abandonment of the victims and opponents of Saddam Hussein and his tyrannous regime by the 'Stop the War' coalition in Britain.It is impossible to appease a bully, which is why so much of this conflict-resolution crap plays into the hands of psychopaths. They are simply not singing from the same hymn-sheet as everyone else.  

At 4:21 AM, Kathy said...  

Woah! Thank you for that balm on my jet lag. As you can see, I'm operating in your time zone!Seriosusly, I agree. It's the same thing on a massive scale. A way of looking the other way and masquerading this ugly and callous betrayal as the opposite - as, of all things, "humanitarian concern."No matter where you go in the world people do this. Narcissistic and psychopathic bullies who become dictators like Hitler, Stalin, and Hussein are cynics who exploit this mass behavior like every narcissistic bully does on a smaller scale. The Islamofascist movement is collectively behaving just like that.And how can we expect Muslims to stand up to it when they see the West afraid to? I think the only hope is to shame people for behaving this way, because reason and true morality bounces off the forehead of a hypocrite. I say to them: If you want to stay out of it, fine. Your choice. But when you turn on the victim and demonize those who do have the courage to step up and take action (for the offense of putting your cowardice to shame by their example), you are sinking to the gutter
 

At 11:39 PM, Kathy said...

Join the club. I doubt there is such a thing as a victim of a narcissist who doesn't beat themselves up over having put up with it for so long. At some point you have an epiphany and see what you've done = the horrible "asked for it." By doing that, we give the N a carte blanche to abuse us; we lay down to make a nice door mat; we make it OK to abuse us because there is no response to that abuse. No complaint. No demand to even just stop abusing us. How abject. And so on.

I'm sure I don't have to describe how low we feel when we realize what we've done - how it actually TEMPTS the abuser! It's like staking out a lamb in the backyard of a wolf.

Then we alternate between anger at ourselves for it and anger at those influences in our life that trained us to think it is evil not to be a spineless wimp who keeps turning the other cheek and bending over for it with a smile. But the pain subsides. Since we are not narcissists blame doesn't kill us. We can let it lay where it may. We accept our responsibility and ARE FAIR WITH OURSELVES. Because we were influenced and trained to make this mistake. The important thing is that we stop making it.Ironic, eh? We have to repent turning the other cheek. I don't know whether you're there yet or not, but you will get there. To the point of being at peace with yourself about it. (Largely because you don't do it anymore.) Also, notice what the bitterness has been about here. Not about bystanders keeping out of it and doing nothing - about the bystanders landing on the VICTIM. Trying to supress the victim's complaint and turn the victim into docile victim, a glutton for punishment who just keeps taking it as though it ain't happening. THAT'S what makes the victim furious with the bystanders, righteously furious. We see right though them, and it ain't a pretty sight. But that isn't what you're talking about. 

  

At 6:01 AM, Anonymous said...

thanks kathy. the second post i tried didn't get through and was pretty elegant last night- let's see if i can get close now. i said something about how innocent bystander IS an oxymoron. it makes me think. i hated being an 'innocent bystander' only i choked on the word innocent. i felt helpless- but mot innocent.shoot i really can't remember what else i said. something about how having the words to put with it all is helping. anyway thanks for your site. thanks for being here. jt  

At 6:05 AM, gh said...

Ah, thanks for this one, Kathy -- always a good reminder. When I divorced my N, certain friends and family seemed to go out of their way to continue nurturing a relationship with him -- and he with them, for what better way to perpetuate abuse than to try to lure away the people who should be there to support and encourage the victim?At first, I excused it, thinking as one commenter said above that I could hardly blame them for being taken in by his act when I myself was taken in for so long. They were just being good people for giving him the benefit of the doubt, right?Then it hit me -- to give *him* the benefit of the doubt, they had to deny that same benefit to me. The day one of my supposedly oldest and closest friends berated me for not taking my marriage vows seriously and not doing enough to try to make it work, a light switch flipped. *I* didn't do enough?? All my ex had to do to save the marriage was to stop abusing me. He wouldn't/couldn't/didn't do that. In pointing the finger of blame at me this supposed friend necessarily had to accept his song and dance that he was trying everything he could and had to reject (or, better, turn a blind eye) to my side of the story.There is a time, sure, that you can excuse the bystanders for not seeing. WE do our part, no doubt, to cover for the N while being abused. But when you speak out about the abuse and the bystanders choose to blindly accept the N's stories, this is the ultimate betrayal. All you can do then, I think, is run from these "innocent" bystanders as fast as you can. They'd rather see you continue to suffer than to have to give up their comfortable ignorance.

At 8:14 AM, Anonymous said...

Once again I am struck by the intelligence, sincerity and similarities between yourselves and all of the rest of us. I believe and have been shown this CELLULARLY, that narcissistic abuse only happens to the BEST of us, and hopefully we each can take our journey of healing and make something astonishingly beautiful of our lives.

At 10:35 AM, Anonymous said...

Hey Guys, Stop! There we go again blaming everyone but the cruel manipulator who's evil makes no sense and totally diarms all within reach of it. What my son said out of hurt and pain toward his brother who he loves but does not like is, "I can't do anything because he'll burn my sh__!' That's crude but it is the bottom line, we put up with it to survive and protect our property.

Narcissists manipulate, throw unreasonable and frightening tantrums, lie, and cheat (and usually this is how they treat those they claim to love) to get the things most of us would just ask for. 

They don't make any sense and they frighten us. It is easier to be angry at ourselve or those others who innocently stand by because it is safer than showing anger toward such a creature that makes no sense and we have no idea how they will react.

Let's focus on putting the blame where it is due.


At 11:05 PM, Anonymous said... Thank you for all the comments on bystanders. My psycho ex turned so many people against me who I remain disgusted with as they had the audacity to tell me to calm down and not be upset. This sick man tormented me on the Internet for months and got a large group of people to help him. Never trust anyone who tells you not to be angry. You have a right to your anger.

Source

STALKER... or "JUST LOOKIN'?"

Just a couple weeks after [YWL]s extramarital activities were found out and we had our "falling out" (he never contacted me after threatening me, never tried to speak with me or explain... I guess that's his definition of ...uh ...falling out), I was checking the hit meter for my personal blog. I stopped short. My PTSD anxiety hit the gas. I was actually shaking. I was being watched. Yes, me - the "stalker"! I was being stalked! By YWL. 

I double and tripled checked and sent it to a geek friend and yes, he was on my blog. Regularly - maybe once a week at least. I told my counselor, who knew I loved writing and having a blog. She advised me to find a way to block him from my blog if it was so triggering to me. I didn't want to take it down and start over. 

I have been blogging since 2002. I really had nothing to hide. Unfortunately, my blog platform does not yet allow for IP blocking. Finally I decided to take down my blog for 36 hrs and posted this:  

************************  
from my blog, barbarany9

Apologies to my other readers & visitors while I face a personal situation head on here. Scroll down for my usual blog fare. Hi [YWL ] I know you are coming here.... looks like Saturdays after or before Shul.  
Domain Name optonline.net ? (Network) 
IP Address 24.47.134.# (Optimum Online (Cablevision Systems)) ISP Optimum Online (Cablevision Systems) 
Location Continent : North America 
Country : United States (Facts) 
State : XXX 
City : XXXX 
Operating System Microsoft WinXP 
Browser Firefox 2.0 Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.8.1.3) Gecko/20070309 Firefox/2.0.0.3 Javascript disabled 
ARIN location: XXX XXX Drive, XXXXXX XXXX, XX 11XXX  
Time of Visit Mar 26 2005 9:50:07 am 
Last Page View Mar 26 2005 9:55:17 am  

Please read on. I have so many questions: but one big one - since you found me so disgusting, pathetic and unworthy what did you want to find out with this search? :  

Referring URL 
http://www.google.co...BARBARANY_9&btnG=Search Search Engine: google.com Search Words: barbarany_9  

• Do you feel better now that you know every forum or site I may be on? 
• Who's the REAL stalker here?  
• Does it make you feel good to see the pain & agony you have caused me? 
• That I am spending time still trying to unravel myself?  
• Are you still wrapped up in feeling sorry for yourself or blaming me and calling me a stalker? 
• Have you checked if its really me who's doing it?  

I hope you get help. Ongoing, long term help. This had nothing to do with jealousy or obsession - but with doing the right thing. 

I had a feeling about Julie's brothel and your online sex-partner ads long before - I kept asking... hoping you would open up to me. But you didn't - you just continued to make it very clear that you wanted nothing further to do with me except use me. 

I could have gotten you help. Now you're representing me as "fixated" with you, harassing you and "too much of a temptation" for you to be in touch with me FOR REAL.   You're painting me as 'out to hurt your wife' when YOU were the one who hurt her.  The police and my attorney has chats where YOU said some very nasty things about her and I STUCK UP FOR HER!!

I heard you are trying to make sure everyone hears your story, your "version" of what happened that paints me like some avenging harpy. I got the big hints that I went from college mercy-fuck to internet freebie for an unemployed old acquaintance.You said many things about me in college when you thought I didn't hear you. Then you painted your own special picture of me to Elizabeth and I bet now to everyone else. I get it.

 I GET IT.

Put on your big boy panties and leave me alone. The truth is out there. Anyone who really knows you, will believe it. No matter how hard you try to couch them as "lies" and "falsehoods'; no matter what you've been able to convince your wife and family of... the TRUTH and DOCUMENTATION is staying out there.  Forever.

- Barbara

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~  


Additionally, as a safety precaution I told the owners of a couple online support groups for panic, anxiety & trauma I belonged to that the NYPD were watching my accounts. They asked for YWL's IP number and the IPs the NYPD were using, they didn't want myself or any of their users hassled. I got them and turned them over.

Not 36 hours after doing this TWO SUPPORT SITE OWNERS told me YWL had been on their sites... after googling my id and clicking to my posts!! I flipped out.  

I wasn't safe anywhere. I would never be safe again. I didn't sleep for days. I left the MSN Groups but they REFUSED to remove YWL's photos or the story - I begged.  

I only wanted support for my PTSD... 

YWL took ZERO responsibility for what he'd done to me - and god only knows what Elizabeth was doing!

Eventually my therapist got me to reclaim that ID and not run and hide, not create some new identity.  

I was nothing and no one to him. I'm not entitled to be hurt, upset and yes - angry. I would be happy to discuss it all like adults but he won't speak to me - because I supposedly hurt his family on purpose because I am some sort of desperate stalker? He'd rather attack, attack, attack.  

Silly me, I thought at least I could be a cordial adult and be polite. It is a good article.

Unfortunately YWL & I belong to the same blogging community. Got to wonder what he's told his REAL friends there about me; since he did mention me in this post. It is sad he will go to any lengths to silence the truth. That's why this blog will remain up, for MY peace of mind... no one else's. I am doing this for ME.

"You are dealing with a totally delusional human being, who builds his own fantasies about his reality and believes his own pathological lies. How can you possibly hope to have a healthy relationship with someone who bases his whole existence on deceit? IMPOSSIBLE! And don't kid yourself - They know exactly what they are doing - They prey, victimize, and devastate."

Of course we are to cut YWL all sorts of slack for my 'hurting him, his family, etc.' but no slack for me being completely traumatized, ending up in the hospital a few times, being unable to drive or do much for weeks thereafter, dismantling my computer (according to him I was supposedly stalking & harassing him then.  I wonder how I did that with NO COMPUTER???) 

-- noooo, somehow he stalks me and reads all my pain & anguish but HE'S THE VICTIM. 

He still takes ZERO personal accountability. Scary. Heaven forbid any of us were a real human being not some THING that could be clicked off with his mouse or blocked on IM, huh?

(Note: At this time I knew nothing about Sociopathy and how they operate.   YWL is TEXTBOOK.)

APOLOGY? NOT!

FROM: YWL
 TO: Elizabeth_Green@###.com,
Barbara [lewd misspelling of my last name]@###.net  

DATE: 3/26/2004

I am writing down every day. I see the pain I cased every second of very day. my wife crying (sometimes she throws up) every day and ail cause of me. My kids having no interpersonal relationships because I have been selfish ant too lazy to give them the attention thy deserve. I have a friend my [clergyman] who I made feel so uncomfortable by mixing him up in all this Even quitting the #### was selfish. . 

And I am also profoundly sorry for the pain that I have cased to you both. Every Day I pray to God to relive your pain and that of my family. and then I pray that he bring me closer to [Him] in mind and spirit. so I can change the kind of horrible person I have been.  

Babrara you are right about those 12 steps but they take time...the first one was discussing it all and that goes way beyond my time on line it goes to the way I relate to my family help my kids,. 

My rabbi says to do true teshuva, I have to change, and I am working on int,,,
it is a lng drawn out process.,.  

I got rid of aol adn yahoo and only have the original MSN I dont go ton here, I was advised to no longer put my self in oppottunities where I have to be strong at least untill I have shanged form the creep I was, .

Someday with God’s help I may be a decent human being again.. 

Am truely sorry for the pain I caused and all I can say is that ai sm trying to make that person go away Ihis is from the heart, wheater u believe or not.  

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~  

Isn't YWL's 'apology' above a perfect example of this?:

 

How NOT to Apologize when you have Seriously Fucked Up.

1.) Apologize in email. Hey, why should you actually have to FACE the person you harmed and DEAL with the real consequences of your actions - like the fact that they might still be hurt and upset? It's so much easier to do it from a distance - that way you can go around telling everyone how you made all this EFFORT to rectify things. If questioned on this, you can fall back on your old excuses about how the other person is just too scary to face in person. (People you have betrayed aren't usually very compliant). Call them scorned, a stalker or obsessed. Say it will hurt your other friends or family. Ignore the fact that this avoidance is completely contradicting any statements you might make about "taking responsibility" for your behavior (see below).  

2.) Make sure the "confession", er, apology comes MONTHS or years after the incident. It's just too much work to actually own up immediately afterwards. Let's face it, you're not after any real resolution, and you are not offering any kind of restitution - you are looking to assuage your guilty conscience and buy absolution, and, if you play your cards right, you can get attention for your act of "bravery" in coming forward. If it's absolution you are looking for, why not join the Catholic church instead?

"Powerful and sneaky people use apologies as end runs around repentance. They betray a trust; and, when they have been found out, they say they are sorry for "mistakes in judgement". They smile through their oily apologies when their crime calls for quakes of repentance. They get by only because we have lost our sense of the difference between repentance for wrong and apologies for bungling.... We should not let each other get away with it. A deep and unfair hurt is more than a mere faux pas. We cannot put up with everything from everyone; some things are intolerable. When someone hurts us deeply and unfairly [deliberately], an apology will not do the job; it only trivializes a wrong that should not be trifled with." -- Lewis B. Smedes, "Forgive and Forget"

3.) Use generic sweeping statements, so that you don't have to own up to, or deal with any specifics. This is a great way to avoid any REAL acknowledgement for the stunts you have pulled, while giving the appearance of sincerity. As Dr. Phil (C. McGraw) says:

"Acknowledgement is a no-kidding, unvarnished, bottom-line, truthful confrontation with yourself about what you are doing or not doing, or what you are putting up with in your life that is destructive. It's not some pious, phoney-baloney, half-hearted rendition of what you think they want to hear. Nor is it a watered-down, politically correct 'confession' that you think will buy you closure at the expense of truth. I mean brutal reality: slapping yourself in the face and admitting what you are doing to screw up your life. This also means admitting that you are getting payoffs for what you're doing, however sick or subtle those payoffs are."

And God knows, real acknowledgement and acceptance of responsibility is not what you were after or you wouldn't have apologized in email in the first place.  

YWL are you BUTTHURT?

4.) Try to evoke sympathy for yourself as part of the apology. Use worn-out lines like "It may not mean much to you now...". Thank the person for their past "support" of you in your (largely self-inflicted) trials and tribulations as a not-so-subtle reminder of how "rough" things have been for you and your other friends/ family. You can also use this as a way to look magnanamous and introspective while avoiding taking any real action.  

Whine about how you are finally working on your "issues" (never mind that you have been saying the same thing for years), as if that is supposed to mean something real. Avoid any discussion about what you are doing *specifically* to work on those issues. After all, (despite your previous litany of lies) the person you are apologizing to should trust that you really mean what you say this time, right?  

Talk about how you are finally accepting responsibility for the consequences of your behavior, and then avoid making any effort to talk to the other person face to face. Talk about how you miss the fun you had with the other person (carefully avoiding any mention of the fun you had at that person's expense at the same time). 

See if there is still a chain left to be yanked. Remember, this is all about assuaging your conscience and repairing your damaged image - not about doing real work or genuine caring for the other person, but nobody else needs to know that. With a little careful manipulation, you can use this apology to get sympathy and attention from other people as well.  

5.) Don't give any reasons about why you have suddenly decided to extend this tremendous effort (writing an email) after so much time has passed. It is equally important that you avoid replying to any questions they might ask about specifics. Remember, this isn't really about making amends, it's about making yourself feel better.  

6.) Expect instant redemption and forgiveness. Remember, no matter what you have done, a few words are supposed to magically wipe away all the pain of the past with no further work required by you. Now that you have made a token gesture, the other person should just "forgive and forget" and "move on" and stop talking about it or asking you for accountability so that you find it easier to sleep at night.  

7.) Get upset when your trite "olive branch" isn't received with warmth and acceptance. Go whining to whomever will listen, about how you made all this *EFFORT*, and how *HARD* it was for you to take that step (what with all your issues, and all), and how it was REJECTED because that awful person actually expected you to DO SOMETHING REAL. After all, you have ISSUES and such, and that means you should be exempted from behaving in a manner congruent to your words, and everyone should coddle you and praise even the smallest effort on your part.  

8.) Take no further action. Use pat phrases like, "I'm doing my best to take responsiblity for the consequences of my behaviour", but don't actually DO anything beyond sending the email. It plays well, and you can always use that "doing my best" as your cop-out when you don't actually follow-through - it wasn't a REAL commitment to change, it was a "best-effort", and your emailed apology was a fine demonstration of how good THAT is.  

I can't stress enough how important it is that you don't reply to any questions the other person might have about your email, especially ones that ask "why now?", "what specifically do you acknowledge was inappropriate?" and "what specifically you are doing to take responsibility?". After all, you don't owe them any explanation. 

Like I said, this isn't about doing anything for *them*, it's all about YOU. After all, once you've made your apology, you can wash your hands of the whole messy affair and wipe your conscience clean without having to dirty yourself with uncomfortable things like integrity, sincerity, action or actually facing the person you harmed.  

SOURCE  

btw -- law enforcement told me he NEVER got rid of any of his instant messengers. Just BLOCKED me. 

It was just a few weeks before he changed his online identity and went right back to it.  

ONE MORE FOR MR. RELIGIOUSLY OBSERVANT 
 The 'sweet person' I thought I knew turned out to be a predator who gets his kicks out of lying, coercing and sexually overpowering women - whether it's by saying 'I love you' indiscriminately or paying for it.  

And the way YWL misspelled my name? sent me back to the emergency room. I was in the hospital a lot then - yet I was accused of 'stalking' him at the same times. Thanks for that. I didn't realize I was that ALL-POWERFUL...

Another one for you - YWL

#ifmywoundswerevisible #yidwithlid #JeffDunetz