DOES HE FIT THE CHECKLIST ON PREDATORS?

If I am honest with myself, I must admit that yes --- YWL is severely disordered pathological.
 

Characteristics of a Pathological/Abuser

• superficial charm
• self-centered
• prone to boredom
• deceptive behavior & lying
• conning & manipulative
• little remorse or guilt
• shallow emotional response
• callous lack of empathy
• living off others
• predatory
• poor self-control
• sexually promiscuous
• early behavioral problems
• impulsive lifestyle
• irresponsible behavior
• blaming you for their actions
• truly believes his own lies
• will turn his friends on you
• enlists others to harass you

SOURCE

 I have never harrassed Jeff. I did what I did to help his wife, his family and HIM. No matter what he thinks or tells others -- I am right with myself about what I did. One day I hope, he will reopen the line of communication with me in an HONEST way. I will write CHECK if Mr. Dunetz fits this checklist So let's see if he fits, shall we?

 

 

• The other type of emotionally unavailable man is unavailable due to his relationship (or relationships) with another woman (or women). These guys are never really committed to a woman. They don't see any relationship as necessarily permanent, including marriage - even if they give lip service to being "deeply committed" to the woman they are with at the moment. CHECK!  
• In truth, however, they don't truly value their intimate relationships or take them seriously, because they are merely "playing," even though engagement or marriage hardly seems like something to "play" at. They don't take their relationships seriously because on some level - even if subconciously - they know they can find someone else who will get involved with them if their current affair ends. What else would cause someone to repeatedly play his future like a crapshoot without really fearing the outcome? CHECK! ...
• It is probably because women keep attempting to get close to him that causes him to keep moving from partner to partner or to keep adding partners. He is uninterested in experiencing or is unable to experience deep feelings of connection with anyone. CHECK! (YWL told me in April 2002 that he "can't feel." This changed once he decided to move in on me to "I can't do sex without an emotional connection." You pick the true statement.) ...
• What is dangerous about emotionally unavailable men is that they are not authentically emotionally responsive. They are emotionally avoidant. CHECK! ...Some of these men may have a sexual addiction that fuels their pursuit of rapidly revolving, superficial relationships. Perhaps his sexual addiction takes the form of chronic and compulsive pornography use, a pattern that will diminish a man's normal human responsiveness. CHECK! ...
• be aware that [this type of man] will paint himself as a devoted father and husband or as an upstanding citizen of his community. Never discount the possibility that your emotionally unavailable man may have multiple hidden lives (always the case if he's engaging in clandestine extramarital affairs) as well as being an emotional predator. For example: emotional unavailability, plus life he keeps hidden from you, his wife or his girlfriend, plus the keen sixth sense of an emotional predator, plus a sexual addiction - help these pathological men thrive at attracting serial superficial relationships. CHECK! CHECK! 
• If he is a sexual addict as well he will have a hidden life of endless porn watching, masturbation, voyeurism, and even using prostitutes. Many times these men will cover their perversions with heavy involvement in community politics, their church or synagogue or doing volunteer work. And they will make sure this cover is very visible so no one suspects. CHECK!!  
• Sexually addicted predators will not stop at you, they will go after your friends as well. They think nothing of telling your friend that you mean nothing to them and that you are possibly "imagining" the relationship. They will tell their wives the same things about you or any other woman they know insisting "she's jealous of us and is obsessed with me." They are masterful jugglers of time and people. CHECK! ...
• a woman's availability itself is a deciding factor... "any port in a storm" will provide adequate distraction from the reality of his life. CHECK!! (the fact he had so much time on his hands due to unemployment... do the math. If he'd really had such fond memories of me? He would have looked me up YEARS before. All he saw was my name and that 'hey, maybe she'll fuck me for free since I'm unemployed right now' light went off in his head.)  
• In addition to finding women who are available, these men have to locate women who are willing to violate their own emotional, sexual and ethical standards... So his challenge is to find women who, with a little encouragement will deny their values and boundaries and partake. CHECK! (once YWL knew how I'd felt about him all that time, he pushed for about 5-6 weeks (back & forth) ... and threw on the love bombing and NLP - I struggled but I simply couldn't withstand the onslaught in my state of mind. My trauma counselors told me this! In August 2004 they had to "deprogram" me!)  
• Womanizers also look for women who will believe their stories about their home life. Very few of them tell women how happy they are at home, how wonderful their wife is, and how they just really want to have extramarital sex with no strings attached. No, that usually isn't the story line. The story line goes: "No one has ever really loved me, and certainly not my wife. She nags... doesn't appreciate me... hates sex..." CHECK!!!  
• Women take this hook too often. ...they will be able to make him "finally feel loved... listened to... appreciated." His need is not "once and for all to be loved" as much as it is to get laid, be amused and be distracted. CHECK!  
• A womanizer may be highly verbal about his relationships. He may share personal information in such a way that women mistake his sharing for emotional intimacy... He knows well enough that women are empathic to tales of empty and sad relationships... CHECK! (does regaling me with stories of his sexual romps with his ex-fiance and even telling me about he and his wife having sex count? And because he could have CARED LESS about me - he took real pleasure in 'twisting the knife' into me since he knew he'd hooked me and then told me "I decided. We aren't going to have sex." Also - No boundaries, my freeze response and making me feel like crap - he hit the trifecta. He'd never EVER given me a chance at a real friendship!)  
• Such men are successful when they find women who are unhappy in their own relationships. CHECK!!!!!!!!!  
• An interesting point is that almost every woman who told us her story about getting involved with an emotionally unavailable man said it happened at a time when her self-esteem was low. [She] was coming out of a relationship situation that had damaged her self-esteem (such as being abused or even going through a divorce). Women accept far more during times of low self-esteem than they do when their self-esteem is sound. A belief that she doesn't deserve a whole, satisfying and healthy relationship is a reflection of how low her self-esteem is. If a man gives a woman who suffers with low-self esteem a little attention... then too often she willingly falls [for him]. CHECK!! (My counselors all told me this same thing! But wait!, Jeff said I "went into this with my eyes open" .. ssshhhhuuurrrreee )

'I am now sorry for the pain I caused his family. Even if his wife never found out, I hurt her... which I had no business [doing]." - Ali CHECK

"These men aren't looking for love; they are looking for a distraction from what THEY really are." - Jamie CHECK!

~~~  

• The emotional predator is as bad as it gets. He qualifies as the pinnacle of poisonous and pathological... He could, in fact, be called the "emotional psychic." That's because it's his ability to intuit and sense a woman's emotional vulnerabilities that places her at risk. Webster's defines predatory as "having a disposition to injure or exploit others for one's own gain; it defines predator as "one that preys, destroys or devours." That's a good summation of this man. Who but the most pathological among us would set out to exploit, prey on, destroy or devour? CHECK!! 
• He will hone in on your vulnerabilities and read you. If he likes what he reads, he will follow up by luring you into his scary and dangerous life. CHECK!  
• Predators have a natural ability for reading women who are lonely, bored, needy by nature, emotionally wounded or vulnerable. The predator also has his antennae up for women who... have unfulfilled needs in their lives. ...he figures out how he can squeeze into the vacant space in your life and what you need to hear in order to allow this to happen. CHECK! (he was never interested in me or my life. He was profiling me. He could have cared LESS!) ...
• [they] "sense" which woman will make the best target for them. They don't know why they have this gift or how they acquired it. ...they have been working women over since childhood. A predator's intuitive sixth sense is untaught. ...an adult's skills can't compete with his abilities to scam, con and conquer. CHECK! (bet I was a big ego boost too - and he laughed his ass off every time he left me dangling) ...
• emotional predators also fall into the mentally-ill category, usually under the diagnosis of antisocial personality disorder. Most also have hidden lives. When you couple a predator's natural instincts with a lifetime of skills honed by successfully conning, exploiting and injuring women, you have a man who is nothing short of extraordinarily smooth and capable of horrific dangerousness. CHECK  
• Predators' motives vary. But you can be sure a predator wants something from you. That is the entire reason for the relationship. ...There is something in you that he wants. Maybe "all" he wants is your utter adoration or for you to exalt his ego. ...Maybe wants what you can provide to help establish his image so he will marry you ('good family man'). Or maybe ...he's most interested in the pursuit and conquest of a woman... If he is a sexual predator, you are a target, whether it be for consensual sex or rape - depending on whichever way it plays out or whatever mood he is in. CHECK!( Heavy on the consensual for him... but he won't admit he used emotional coercion and lies to accomplish one thing = emotional rape. Heaven forbid YWL be accused of wrongdoing... ohhhh noooo)  
• A predator does not "need" the relationship. Early on... the predator is deliberately romantic. Predators are shifting chameleons who can be all things to all women. Predators are smooth as silk. ...predators are listeners who will give up very little information until they are sure it will align with your history. ...His selection is based on his need and your vulnerability. He knows it's a matter of matching need with need. The more he knows about your needs, the better he can meet them. CHECK! (he didn't even like me, in fact he hates me and ALWAYS HAS. What I don't get is when he had money to go back to the hookers and then Elizabeth... WHY all the times I tried to pull away or leave the relationship did he reel me back in? The only explanation could be that he liked raping my mind and toying with my emotions to amuse himself. If YWL meant what he left on my answering machine "I want to see you & talk to you. I don't want to lose you out of my life. You mean too much to me" - no matter what he would have done something to see me and talk to me. Even now. Yet he'd rather smear and block me. BTW, I was never 'IN' his life -- despite my repeated efforts to MAKE THE FRIENDSHIP WORK and get away from his sex-obession when he chatted with me!)  
• He has a nose for vulnerability, so women who have unmet needs "smell" especially good to him. He seeks women who need men who can "sense and know" them on almost a spiritual level. Since he is good at this, he will appear to know you well - and quickly. CHECK! (and the fact we knew each other from earlier in our lives & were intimate? What a coup!)  
• They like women who had absent fathers, angry mothers or neglectful and abusive husbands. Knowing that many women are trained to believe that people are basically good at heart, predators will present themselves as men of honor and virtue.... But because he is a chameleon, he will listen closely to see if you also need a mentor, an adviser on some topic, a spiritual leader, or a male friend. CHECK!!!  
• During counseling sessions I've had with men who are emotional predators, some have verbalized their targets. One said, "I look for naive women. I like a certain vulnerability to her - that she trusts humanity without asking for proof. Maybe she's been hurt a lot so there's a "woundedness" to her. That vulnerability makes them believe you, because they need to believe you." CHECK.  
• Another said, "I like the mentally weak - women who have been pounded down by men and those with childhoods that weren't so good. They are particularly easy." CHECK.  
• It is important to understand that each predator has developed his own unique style. He has a "type" or two of women he prefers because with those types he has mastered the approach, the dating, and the 'end.' He doesn't have to think very hard if he just uses the profile he's had success with. One predator may prefer recently divorced or divorcing women because he succeeds at playing that angle with them. CHECK (most probably) ... 
• these guys can show a woman they definitely "get it." They show you all the attention that the jerks you've been with haven't. They say all the right lines that the men in your past could never verbalize. They are brilliant and insightful about what you need. They seem to know exactly every pain you have suffered. CHECK!  
• With more skill than a carnival psychic, the emotional predator can hone in on your every need, sympathize with you in such a way so that you believe you've met your long lost soulmate and sweep you off your feet... He's... more insightful than a therapist. He "knows" you the way no one else ever has. CHECK! (hell yes)  
• This guy moves FAST. He's got to - before you figure out what his M.O. is. Every woman should be suspect of the relationships that seem to be traveling in the fast lane on the super-highway of emotional intimacy. A predator needs to keep you so euphoric with compliments and lover's talk that you aren't listening, or paying attention. He is dripping with sincerity and clinging to every word you say. A predator wants to consummate the relationship with you right away, because time is against him. CHECK! (YWL wanted me in bed with him almost immediately. Thank God I kept hedging and asking questions and demanding he slow down and be normal with me... even though he didn't. With all the "I couldn't control myself if I saw you," "just talking to you is making me h*rd... I am usually not that sensitive," "you make me feel like Stanley Kowalski" -- what horsesh*t! "I have to f*ck you soon"
  Or what he told Shira "I had to pull away from Barbara, the sexual tension was making me crazy." Really - what tension would THAT be YWL? The fact that my ex-husband found out so it was no longer convenient? Or that you didn't want to help me even though I was getting beat up on a daily basis because of you? Or could it be that I disgusted you so thoroughly and you were just having a big laugh at my profound expense? Or was it even that I was just asking too many pointed questions and you knew I was starting to figure you real motives out?) 
•  To move the relationship along and be indispensable to you, he must act helpful, comforting and generous. Since he is working against the clock, he must find out what you need and then meet that need. CHECK (see above)  
• While listening to you and observing you, he will glean a lot of information about your hobbies, interests, spiritual beliefs and value systems. He is the original identity thief. He uncovers and uses for his own purposes everything he can about what makes you - YOU. He will find you amazing, beautiful, bright and talented - like no one he has EVER met before. He will align how he portrays himself with your needs and also your interests until you feel like you are looking at your twin. CHECK!! ("you were the most talented person I ever knew," "your breasts were always my favorite," "I loved being with you," "you aren't that fat, you are still very very lovely" hahahaha!)  
• Finally, another way predators succeed with women is by preying on their compassion. Once a woman is in the grip of a predator, anything can happen. CHECK!!! (read this site for that one)  
• [Once a woman sees their stories] for the crock they are and bust them for their fake opinions with them, they will try and turn the table and make it seem it was the woman who had emotional problems! CHECK! (read post "he said" on this site. And does blocking me and refusing to speak to me with excuses like "it will hurt my wife" or "talking wouldn't do either of us any good" - um, YWL? LET ME THINK FOR MYSELF. I deserve better and actually, so do you & your family & friends)  

So, how did YWL do on the predator checklist? 100%? Wow!

ONE FOR YOU, YIDWITHLID:

 hotnewskates (IP: 68.199.197.157 , ool-44c7c59d.dyn.optonline.net) E-mail : twisterjoker@gmail.com 
URL : Whois : http://ws.arin.net/cgi-bin/whois.pl?queryinput=68.199.197.157
It sort of seems that you have created a system/checklist basically freeing yourself from any wrongdoing in the relationship at any level (I just glanced, but am I wrong in saying that you were the other half of an affair? Is only one person in a relationship responsible for the actions that need two people?) Are you just saying that you are an innocent sheep, never getting your own needs or desires met? Honestly from what you've written, it seems like you got entangled in a relationship that didn't end up as you would of liked, and because you didn't get the desired result, are thus bitter. Unless you are of some superhuman moral absolution, you have to admit that your own personal bias and resentment and residual feelings are intertwined into the overall message of this post. Or maybe I just haven't encountered a psychopath. Or maybe I am one? Or maybe I'm with one? What a scam.

~~~~~~~~  
Looks like Jeff Dunetz(aka hotnewskates above) or one of his sycophants paid me a visit!  LOL 
So I am posting this because it shows so clearly the selective machinations most Pathologicals show when called on their nonsense: 
1. I didn't create that checklist, brainiac Please tell me where you got YOUR medical degree?
2. I never didn't take responsibility at any time. Typical Pathological attempts to pick out one 'sore spot' (not sore at all, LOL) and pick at it. Obviously you can't read... or simply don't want to educate yourself. Amazing what arrogance & stupidity together sounds like!
3. My "needs"? Sounds suspiciously like Jeff... or one of his proxies. I had NO NEEDS when I was first contacted and none of my real needs were met in any way, shape or form. YWL/Jeff never befriended me, never allowed me to meet his family or vice versa, never was honest or real with me in any way and never treated me as a human being with respect, empathy and consideration. So no, none of my needs were met. I was brainwashed to meet HIS needs and his needs only. Nice to feel like an object who has no right to feel used or abused. This was not about my needs in ANY WAY.
4. My understanding and integrating that I was brainwashed, lured & groomed comes from the counseling and help I received at a clinic for people with severe PTSD and at least 3 well-known therapists in Trauma. I suggest you take up the 'accountability' issue with them. Oh and be sure you take your Medical Degree with you when you do.
5. If my 'personal bias' as you call it, includes supporting women through the PTSD and aftermath of relationships with Pathologicals, preventing suicides and educating men & women about pathology and it's effect on all our lives... as well as the 100s of thankful emails I have gotten then I say - gimme' more of THAT kind of bias & scam!
6. Bitter? Nah. No longer naive, no longer trusting, no longer dating and dealing with permanent, diagnosed PTSD? sure. Moving on and using what I have learned to validate, support & inform others? Absolutely!
Isn't that scorned woman, bunny boiler, stalker stuff getting kind of old? I don't have that kind of time to spend on a soulless predator... I'd rather use the knowledge to help others, it's much more gratifying. So go ahead friends, let educate this Cluster B poster... if we can! Or is this merely projection and another Pathological's gaslighting scam?
Most reputable therapists & psychiatrists are stopping that BLAME THE VICTIM mentality now... and the "it takes 2 to tango" baloney... thank GOD it was explained to me and I was shown how I was methodically and diabolically used, manipulated, brainwashed, hypnotized and so on... before you throw accusations get your facts straight. Don't believe me - read some of the other comments here.

Really hurts to find out you're a PREDATOR who PREYS on real human beings, doesn't it. I'd be happy to recommend a place to get help... unless you see nothing wrong with using and abusing people this way. Unless you ARE one and you see nothing wrong with exploiting people like objects, using women for sex objects and having zero empathy for them when you throw them away like used tissues.

cindibear@yahoo.com 98.14.11.174 2009-11-06 21:25:40 2009-11-07 02:25:40 - <![CDATA["The ]]> 1 0 0NPD (Narcissistic Personality Disorder) illusion of superiority is a facet of a generalized disdain for reality. These individuals feel unconstrained by rules, customs, limits, and discipline. Their world is filled with self-fiction in which conflicts are dismissed, failures redeemed, and self-pride is effortlessly maintained. They easily devise plausible reasons to justify self-centered and inconsiderate behavior. Their memories of past relationships are often illusory and changing. If rationalizations and self-deception fail, individuals with NPD are vulnerable to dejection, shame, and a sense of emptiness. Then they have little recourse other than fantasy. They have an uninhibited imagination and engage in self-glorifying fantasies. What is unmanageable through fantasy is repressed and kept from awareness. As they consistently devalue others, they do not question the correctness of their own beliefs; they assume that others are wrong. The characteristic difficulties of individuals with NPD almost all stem from their lack of solid contact with reality. If the false image of self becomes substantive enough, their thinking will become peculiar and deviant. Then their defensive maneuvers become increasingly transparent to others" (Millon & Davis, 1996, pp. 405-423). Sharon C. Ekleberry -- Dual Diagnosis and the Narcissistic Personality Disorder. -

One of two possibilities:
1. The "person" who wrote the commentary is either unaware or ignorant about the impact a pathological can have on a non-pathological and this "person" lacks the necessary knowledge and insight to understand that impact.
2. The "person" who wrote the commentary is a mutant mole, also known as a personality disordered creature and can't stand for the "light" of truth to be revealed. After all, moles scurry underground in the dirt and darkness and are completely blind. The "moles" of either species cause tremendous damage. But the damage caused by the furry kind with huge paws and sunken beady eyes can be easily repaired.
On the other hand, the damage caused by the mutant mole is usually permanent.
Yes, it does take 2 to Tango...but the pathological starts out Tap Dancing and never stops!! The pathological tap-dances around every issue, every feeling, every truth, and everyone!!on.xxx@btinternet.com 78.149.53.104 2009-11-07 18:10:29 2009-11-07 23:10:29 - Do I smell a RAT? Well, from what I read in the post above from "hotnewskates", it sure seems that way... I'm certain that the author is either the said "rat" OR one of his sychophants with that same old, "she asked for it" crap the predators spoon-feed them with.....Blah-di-di-blah-di-blah!!!! If it wasn't so sickening, it would be funny!

Who the hell do you think you are!? All Barbara did was TRUST that piece of crap! And, after she got through the initial painful trauma of the wicked things which were done to her, with what little energy she could muster decided to help other women who have been through something similar to her. Women like me! This lady is at the total opposite end of the moral spectrum to the vile creature who used and manipulated her.

Don't you understand, SHE WAS ABUSED BY HIM TO SUCH A DEGREE SHE NEEDED MEDICAL INTERVENTION!? If you are one of the cyberpath's "sympathisers", maybe you could do us all a favour and keep your pathetic, ignorant opinions to yourself! OR, if you are actually "IT", then you can expect your karma bus to pull up any minute! You know something? You're not fit to fasten her laces! YUK!
tiffanys1184@hotmail.com 76.186.158.243 2009-11-08 15:47:47 2009-11-08 20:47:47 - How transparent skater-dude! Wow, you obviously know NOTHING about the horror of being involved with a pathologically disordered person. Perhaps because you are one yourself?? I find it very interesting how you seem to be personally attacking the blogger's story as if it had something to do with you. Otherwise, why would you be here, with an obvious chip on your shoulder instead of a calm, intellectual debate?
Go back to your victimizing of those who don't know better, poor things that they are

psychopathnextdoor@googlemail.com http://masksofsanity.blogspot.com 84.13.173.244 2009-11-08 15:49:42 2009-11-08 20:49:42 -
This sounds like a typical reaction (email) from somebody who A: has no empathy or B: Doesn't understand what a psychopath is, nor how devastating it is to be in a relationship with one. or C: is one themselves.
The commenter obviously has no idea how manipulative the narcissist/sociopath can be. We -- as the discarded targets of said sociopaths -- do NOT desire a perfect, on cloud 9, flying ponies shitting rainbows relationship, we wanted a relationship that was 2 sided in it's giving/taking capabilities. We wanted and strived to treat the narcissist how we wanted to be treated. We all know a relationship isn't perfect, we all have our own issues and wrongdoings, we admit these, freely. We are not blind , and we all know fully well that the dreamy hollywood love isn't real. We don't have unrealistic expectations! It is give and take , not take take take which is what a narcissist lives by.
The narcissist lives his life using fiction - LIES We as the targets/victims live with reality - TRUTH. And finally, we as the discarded targets of sociopaths spent the entire relationship admitting we were wrong, apologizing, appeasing, giving, loving, pleading, begging and forgiving. Even when we were not the guilty party.
So no one has the right to stand up and point fingers at us accusing us of being unrealistic, guilty and irresponsible.

The Courage of Confrontation and Accountability Contrasted with the Hostility of Accusation and Blame

by Michele Toomey, PhD 
michele@mtoomey.com

A confrontation takes courage for many reasons, not the least of which is the self-revelation it requires. In a confrontation, we make a deliberate decision to reveal in an honest, straight forward way, how something has affected us.

 

We are always vulnerable when we reveal how we have reacted to something that has been said or done to us. Sharing our reflections on what we are thinking and feeling as we ponder our reactions is a very intimate process. It means leaving ourselves unprotected as we tell the person we are confronting how they have hurt, angered, intimidated, insulted, or disappointed us. 

If they cannot hear what we are saying without getting defensive and attacking us, we are vulnerable to their hostile reaction. If, on the other hand, they treat the information we've shared in a respectful way, an exchange can take place and self-revealing by both the confronter and the confronted can lead to greater understanding of each other. Needless to say, we would hope the latter response would occur, but, the risk is there and the uncertainty is another reason why we need courage to confront. The potentially hot situation of confronting another can easily backfire or explode. Both the confronter and the confronted must be willing to reveal and claim why they said and/or did certain things that are hard to claim. Both must be courageous and honest and dare let go of their defensiveness or any other self-protective mechanism as they dare reveal themselves so they can understand and be understood. They must reveal what was going on for them that prompted them to say or do what they did. A confrontation is an encounter that takes place on fair grounds between equals, and it requires that both the confronter and the one being confronted expose what they were thinking and feeling when the exchange took place and be accountable for those thoughts and feelings.  

Accountability is an essential ingredient in a confrontation. It keeps the confrontation honest and fair. To be accountable is to claim one's part and in the claiming to begin to understand what needs to change in order to interact fairly and respectfully. If a confrontation is successful, the honest accountability and the clarity it brings, will move things in such a way that the issue at hand can be dealt with differently. Greater understanding of what's going on for both the confronter and the confronted will lead to greater respect and care for their feelings. This, of course, yields an intimacy that allows relationships to become a special gift to be treasured. 

  Confrontation requires courage but it can yield the very desired results of deep intimacy with true caring and mutual respect. Since a confrontation calls for exposing a deeper level of one's self in an interaction, it addresses what's going on for a person underneath the words being spoken. It is not a conversation about the content of what is being said, but about one's relationship to what is being said. It begins by having the confronter reveal the underlying thoughts and feelings she/he had in response to what was said or done, and then moves to the one being confronted. The one being confronted is then called on to respond on that same level, and reveal what was going on for him/her when the exchange took place. As the conversation goes back and forth on this deeper level, each person continues to claim what was going on for them and be accountable for how they expressed themselves when unspoken thoughts and feelings were being triggered by the exchange. The conversation goes back and forth with revealing, claiming and accountability on each person's part, providing clarity and understanding of what was going on for each person. The confrontation ends with accountability being established for the thoughts and feelings and words and behaviors that contributed to the confusion, hurt, anger or fear experienced by either person. As an outgrowth of the clarity that comes from claiming what was going on underneath the words or the behavior being confronted, a certain intimacy occurs between the persons participating in the confrontation. They have communicated on a deeper level, closer to their core, and they are better known to each other as a result of the confrontation.


Future encounters should reflect what has been understood and learned from the confrontation. There should be accountability marked by mutual respect for what has occurred. This sets the stage for further encounters that are not as potentially stressful or hurtful, and not as dependent on intimidation or blame. Accountability calls for claiming with respect and fair play whatever goes on, went on in the past, or occurs in the future. It does not stop with one confrontation, it only begins there.  

In contrast, an accusation rips away at the other person's layers of protection and attributes bad motives to what lies underneath. The purpose is to blame, judge and punish. It yields defensiveness and guilt, and has neither fairness or respect in it. Instead of an exchange, it is an attack. Battle lines are drawn and casualties occur. Rather than an encounter between equals, it is a power struggle to establish the superiority of the victor and the inferiority of the defeated. Someone wins and someone loses. Righteous indignation rather than respectful exploration characterizes an accusatory attack. Intimacy and clarity are never an outgrowth of such antagonism. In an accusation, attack and blame call forth defensiveness and counter attack. Ridicule, sarcasm and anger are the weapons, and the encounter leaves the embattled participants gloating or guilty. If guilty, then there is shame and punishment to deal with, not accountability and integrity. Communication is not the purpose of accusation and communication does not transpire. Altercation does. It is, therefore, not acceptable to rely on accusation and blame to protect ourselves from feelings of hurt, confusion, fear or anger. 

However, neither is it acceptable to just ignore what we are feeling and then build up resentment and walls. The withdrawal that results from not addressing unresolved feelings is also a hostile act. It is both hostile to the one withdrawing and to the one being withdrawn from, because it closes the door to one's self and to others at a time when conversation to resolve the feelings needs to take place. Intimacy can not occur when unresolved feelings are left unaddressed and a protective distance behind a silent stony wall separates the self from itself and from others. The barrier is not a friendly one. It is meant to keep something and someone out. Feeling shut out and shut off when the integrity of our system calls for being connected and flowing in and out means our system is violated by the withdrawal of communication within ourselves. It also means that the other relevant person who is being shut out is being violated as well. There can be no understanding or intimacy without communication and the alienation that occurs with a "shut out" is uncomfortable or even painful if the person values intimacy. Unfortunately, a withdrawer has had to shut itself down in order to find safety in withdrawal. It may seem to the withdrawers that there is no price to shutting down, but what they will one day discover is that they are no longer able to be present.

That is a painful outcome. They are, therefore,eventually only a shell of themselves, alienated, never intimate with any depth of intensity because they have systematically shut themselves off to their own intensity. The first violation of shutting down, therefore, is to the self who shuts down. The subsequent violation, however, is to the other who desires intimacy with the withdrawn person. Withdrawal is the ultimate weapon. No intimacy can occur as long as the withdrawer stays withdrawn. The only recourse is to withdraw as well. This resolves the issue, but at a great cost, an alienating distance that cannot be bridged by anyone but the one who chose it, leaving others powerless. It is, therefore, in our best interest to learn to confront and to be confronted, and to be accountable and demand accountability. We can then experience intimacy with ourselves and others in a way that fulfills our greatest need, the need for knowing and being known, for caring and being cared for, and for feeling a true sense of belonging and intimacy. Neither accusation or withdrawal will provide this. So once again life takes courage. In this instance, the courage to confront.

http://www.mtoomey.com/courage.html

STALKER... or "JUST LOOKIN'?"

Just a couple weeks after [YWL]s extramarital activities were found out and we had our "falling out" (he never contacted me after threatening me, never tried to speak with me or explain... I guess that's his definition of ...uh ...falling out), I was checking the hit meter for my personal blog. I stopped short. My PTSD anxiety hit the gas. I was actually shaking. I was being watched. Yes, me - the "stalker"! I was being stalked! By YWL. 

I double and tripled checked and sent it to a geek friend and yes, he was on my blog. Regularly - maybe once a week at least. I told my counselor, who knew I loved writing and having a blog. She advised me to find a way to block him from my blog if it was so triggering to me. I didn't want to take it down and start over. 

I have been blogging since 2002. I really had nothing to hide. Unfortunately, my blog platform does not yet allow for IP blocking. Finally I decided to take down my blog for 36 hrs and posted this:  

************************  
from my blog, barbarany9

Apologies to my other readers & visitors while I face a personal situation head on here. Scroll down for my usual blog fare. Hi [YWL ] I know you are coming here.... looks like Saturdays after or before Shul.  
Domain Name optonline.net ? (Network) 
IP Address 24.47.134.# (Optimum Online (Cablevision Systems)) ISP Optimum Online (Cablevision Systems) 
Location Continent : North America 
Country : United States (Facts) 
State : XXX 
City : XXXX 
Operating System Microsoft WinXP 
Browser Firefox 2.0 Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.8.1.3) Gecko/20070309 Firefox/2.0.0.3 Javascript disabled 
ARIN location: XXX XXX Drive, XXXXXX XXXX, XX 11XXX  
Time of Visit Mar 26 2005 9:50:07 am 
Last Page View Mar 26 2005 9:55:17 am  

Please read on. I have so many questions: but one big one - since you found me so disgusting, pathetic and unworthy what did you want to find out with this search? :  

Referring URL 
http://www.google.co...BARBARANY_9&btnG=Search Search Engine: google.com Search Words: barbarany_9  

• Do you feel better now that you know every forum or site I may be on? 
• Who's the REAL stalker here?  
• Does it make you feel good to see the pain & agony you have caused me? 
• That I am spending time still trying to unravel myself?  
• Are you still wrapped up in feeling sorry for yourself or blaming me and calling me a stalker? 
• Have you checked if its really me who's doing it?  

I hope you get help. Ongoing, long term help. This had nothing to do with jealousy or obsession - but with doing the right thing. 

I had a feeling about Julie's brothel and your online sex-partner ads long before - I kept asking... hoping you would open up to me. But you didn't - you just continued to make it very clear that you wanted nothing further to do with me except use me. 

I could have gotten you help. Now you're representing me as "fixated" with you, harassing you and "too much of a temptation" for you to be in touch with me FOR REAL.   You're painting me as 'out to hurt your wife' when YOU were the one who hurt her.  The police and my attorney has chats where YOU said some very nasty things about her and I STUCK UP FOR HER!!

I heard you are trying to make sure everyone hears your story, your "version" of what happened that paints me like some avenging harpy. I got the big hints that I went from college mercy-fuck to internet freebie for an unemployed old acquaintance.You said many things about me in college when you thought I didn't hear you. Then you painted your own special picture of me to Elizabeth and I bet now to everyone else. I get it.

 I GET IT.

Put on your big boy panties and leave me alone. The truth is out there. Anyone who really knows you, will believe it. No matter how hard you try to couch them as "lies" and "falsehoods'; no matter what you've been able to convince your wife and family of... the TRUTH and DOCUMENTATION is staying out there.  Forever.

- Barbara

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~  


Additionally, as a safety precaution I told the owners of a couple online support groups for panic, anxiety & trauma I belonged to that the NYPD were watching my accounts. They asked for YWL's IP number and the IPs the NYPD were using, they didn't want myself or any of their users hassled. I got them and turned them over.

Not 36 hours after doing this TWO SUPPORT SITE OWNERS told me YWL had been on their sites... after googling my id and clicking to my posts!! I flipped out.  

I wasn't safe anywhere. I would never be safe again. I didn't sleep for days. I left the MSN Groups but they REFUSED to remove YWL's photos or the story - I begged.  

I only wanted support for my PTSD... 

YWL took ZERO responsibility for what he'd done to me - and god only knows what Elizabeth was doing!

Eventually my therapist got me to reclaim that ID and not run and hide, not create some new identity.  

I was nothing and no one to him. I'm not entitled to be hurt, upset and yes - angry. I would be happy to discuss it all like adults but he won't speak to me - because I supposedly hurt his family on purpose because I am some sort of desperate stalker? He'd rather attack, attack, attack.  

Silly me, I thought at least I could be a cordial adult and be polite. It is a good article.

Unfortunately YWL & I belong to the same blogging community. Got to wonder what he's told his REAL friends there about me; since he did mention me in this post. It is sad he will go to any lengths to silence the truth. That's why this blog will remain up, for MY peace of mind... no one else's. I am doing this for ME.

"You are dealing with a totally delusional human being, who builds his own fantasies about his reality and believes his own pathological lies. How can you possibly hope to have a healthy relationship with someone who bases his whole existence on deceit? IMPOSSIBLE! And don't kid yourself - They know exactly what they are doing - They prey, victimize, and devastate."

Of course we are to cut YWL all sorts of slack for my 'hurting him, his family, etc.' but no slack for me being completely traumatized, ending up in the hospital a few times, being unable to drive or do much for weeks thereafter, dismantling my computer (according to him I was supposedly stalking & harassing him then.  I wonder how I did that with NO COMPUTER???) 

-- noooo, somehow he stalks me and reads all my pain & anguish but HE'S THE VICTIM. 

He still takes ZERO personal accountability. Scary. Heaven forbid any of us were a real human being not some THING that could be clicked off with his mouse or blocked on IM, huh?

(Note: At this time I knew nothing about Sociopathy and how they operate.   YWL is TEXTBOOK.)

APOLOGY? NOT!

FROM: YWL
 TO: Elizabeth_Green@###.com,
Barbara [lewd misspelling of my last name]@###.net  

DATE: 3/26/2004

I am writing down every day. I see the pain I cased every second of very day. my wife crying (sometimes she throws up) every day and ail cause of me. My kids having no interpersonal relationships because I have been selfish ant too lazy to give them the attention thy deserve. I have a friend my [clergyman] who I made feel so uncomfortable by mixing him up in all this Even quitting the #### was selfish. . 

And I am also profoundly sorry for the pain that I have cased to you both. Every Day I pray to God to relive your pain and that of my family. and then I pray that he bring me closer to [Him] in mind and spirit. so I can change the kind of horrible person I have been.  

Babrara you are right about those 12 steps but they take time...the first one was discussing it all and that goes way beyond my time on line it goes to the way I relate to my family help my kids,. 

My rabbi says to do true teshuva, I have to change, and I am working on int,,,
it is a lng drawn out process.,.  

I got rid of aol adn yahoo and only have the original MSN I dont go ton here, I was advised to no longer put my self in oppottunities where I have to be strong at least untill I have shanged form the creep I was, .

Someday with God’s help I may be a decent human being again.. 

Am truely sorry for the pain I caused and all I can say is that ai sm trying to make that person go away Ihis is from the heart, wheater u believe or not.  

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~  

Isn't YWL's 'apology' above a perfect example of this?:

 

How NOT to Apologize when you have Seriously Fucked Up.

1.) Apologize in email. Hey, why should you actually have to FACE the person you harmed and DEAL with the real consequences of your actions - like the fact that they might still be hurt and upset? It's so much easier to do it from a distance - that way you can go around telling everyone how you made all this EFFORT to rectify things. If questioned on this, you can fall back on your old excuses about how the other person is just too scary to face in person. (People you have betrayed aren't usually very compliant). Call them scorned, a stalker or obsessed. Say it will hurt your other friends or family. Ignore the fact that this avoidance is completely contradicting any statements you might make about "taking responsibility" for your behavior (see below).  

2.) Make sure the "confession", er, apology comes MONTHS or years after the incident. It's just too much work to actually own up immediately afterwards. Let's face it, you're not after any real resolution, and you are not offering any kind of restitution - you are looking to assuage your guilty conscience and buy absolution, and, if you play your cards right, you can get attention for your act of "bravery" in coming forward. If it's absolution you are looking for, why not join the Catholic church instead?

"Powerful and sneaky people use apologies as end runs around repentance. They betray a trust; and, when they have been found out, they say they are sorry for "mistakes in judgement". They smile through their oily apologies when their crime calls for quakes of repentance. They get by only because we have lost our sense of the difference between repentance for wrong and apologies for bungling.... We should not let each other get away with it. A deep and unfair hurt is more than a mere faux pas. We cannot put up with everything from everyone; some things are intolerable. When someone hurts us deeply and unfairly [deliberately], an apology will not do the job; it only trivializes a wrong that should not be trifled with." -- Lewis B. Smedes, "Forgive and Forget"

3.) Use generic sweeping statements, so that you don't have to own up to, or deal with any specifics. This is a great way to avoid any REAL acknowledgement for the stunts you have pulled, while giving the appearance of sincerity. As Dr. Phil (C. McGraw) says:

"Acknowledgement is a no-kidding, unvarnished, bottom-line, truthful confrontation with yourself about what you are doing or not doing, or what you are putting up with in your life that is destructive. It's not some pious, phoney-baloney, half-hearted rendition of what you think they want to hear. Nor is it a watered-down, politically correct 'confession' that you think will buy you closure at the expense of truth. I mean brutal reality: slapping yourself in the face and admitting what you are doing to screw up your life. This also means admitting that you are getting payoffs for what you're doing, however sick or subtle those payoffs are."

And God knows, real acknowledgement and acceptance of responsibility is not what you were after or you wouldn't have apologized in email in the first place.  

YWL are you BUTTHURT?

4.) Try to evoke sympathy for yourself as part of the apology. Use worn-out lines like "It may not mean much to you now...". Thank the person for their past "support" of you in your (largely self-inflicted) trials and tribulations as a not-so-subtle reminder of how "rough" things have been for you and your other friends/ family. You can also use this as a way to look magnanamous and introspective while avoiding taking any real action.  

Whine about how you are finally working on your "issues" (never mind that you have been saying the same thing for years), as if that is supposed to mean something real. Avoid any discussion about what you are doing *specifically* to work on those issues. After all, (despite your previous litany of lies) the person you are apologizing to should trust that you really mean what you say this time, right?  

Talk about how you are finally accepting responsibility for the consequences of your behavior, and then avoid making any effort to talk to the other person face to face. Talk about how you miss the fun you had with the other person (carefully avoiding any mention of the fun you had at that person's expense at the same time). 

See if there is still a chain left to be yanked. Remember, this is all about assuaging your conscience and repairing your damaged image - not about doing real work or genuine caring for the other person, but nobody else needs to know that. With a little careful manipulation, you can use this apology to get sympathy and attention from other people as well.  

5.) Don't give any reasons about why you have suddenly decided to extend this tremendous effort (writing an email) after so much time has passed. It is equally important that you avoid replying to any questions they might ask about specifics. Remember, this isn't really about making amends, it's about making yourself feel better.  

6.) Expect instant redemption and forgiveness. Remember, no matter what you have done, a few words are supposed to magically wipe away all the pain of the past with no further work required by you. Now that you have made a token gesture, the other person should just "forgive and forget" and "move on" and stop talking about it or asking you for accountability so that you find it easier to sleep at night.  

7.) Get upset when your trite "olive branch" isn't received with warmth and acceptance. Go whining to whomever will listen, about how you made all this *EFFORT*, and how *HARD* it was for you to take that step (what with all your issues, and all), and how it was REJECTED because that awful person actually expected you to DO SOMETHING REAL. After all, you have ISSUES and such, and that means you should be exempted from behaving in a manner congruent to your words, and everyone should coddle you and praise even the smallest effort on your part.  

8.) Take no further action. Use pat phrases like, "I'm doing my best to take responsiblity for the consequences of my behaviour", but don't actually DO anything beyond sending the email. It plays well, and you can always use that "doing my best" as your cop-out when you don't actually follow-through - it wasn't a REAL commitment to change, it was a "best-effort", and your emailed apology was a fine demonstration of how good THAT is.  

I can't stress enough how important it is that you don't reply to any questions the other person might have about your email, especially ones that ask "why now?", "what specifically do you acknowledge was inappropriate?" and "what specifically you are doing to take responsibility?". After all, you don't owe them any explanation. 

Like I said, this isn't about doing anything for *them*, it's all about YOU. After all, once you've made your apology, you can wash your hands of the whole messy affair and wipe your conscience clean without having to dirty yourself with uncomfortable things like integrity, sincerity, action or actually facing the person you harmed.  

SOURCE  

btw -- law enforcement told me he NEVER got rid of any of his instant messengers. Just BLOCKED me. 

It was just a few weeks before he changed his online identity and went right back to it.  

ONE MORE FOR MR. RELIGIOUSLY OBSERVANT 
 The 'sweet person' I thought I knew turned out to be a predator who gets his kicks out of lying, coercing and sexually overpowering women - whether it's by saying 'I love you' indiscriminately or paying for it.  

And the way YWL misspelled my name? sent me back to the emergency room. I was in the hospital a lot then - yet I was accused of 'stalking' him at the same times. Thanks for that. I didn't realize I was that ALL-POWERFUL...

Another one for you - YWL

#ifmywoundswerevisible #yidwithlid #JeffDunetz

THE DUBIOUS HONOR OF BEING VICTIM OF THE MONTH

Around October 2004 I was contacted by other women who'd also been involved in destructive online relationships. My email had been shared with them. They felt that there was no site out there to help people identify those who prey on adults as well as a site to show them - with clear examples of WHAT CAN HAPPEN WHEN YOU ARE THE TARGET OF A PSYCHOPATH! They had started this site. There are now 4 women that I know of, around North America and Europe who work on the site. The site is run by great people. Yes, all smart women who made a similar mistake and wanted to make sure no one else did. (I do not know who they are and I am not and never have been one of them)  I hope people are learning from that site.

I even went to a rabbi who was working with me, my trauma counselors and my therapist and all of them saw the healing power in telling my story. I gathered up everything the police had given me, the stuff my ex's attorney had presented me with (as you will read ex had my computer keylogged for quite some time prior to YWL getting in touch with me... ). 

I had to provide the site with police verifications, the computer forensic verifications and so on. It's illegal to make claims online or off without verifiable proof. They wanted to do my story. They weren't going to lie or cover for me if I was making stuff up. I told them they could NOT publish my name or location or YWL's real name or location or anyone else's for the safety of our innocent children and YWL's spouse.  

They had strict legal guidelines for what they post. So yes, they checked everything I sent them via their contacts in law enforcement.
 

Here are all the posts which were published on the site around March 2005. So its been out there for a couple years at least. Click on any of the links provided and hopefully it will take you right to the post. Read in date order... feel free to ask me questions. I'm past being embarrassed simply because I was the target of a predator. http://cyberpathlinks.blogspot.com/2007/06/j-aka-gridney-aka-yidwithlid-aka-sammy.html  

I will clarify again that I could not lie and everything in these posts had to be verified independently. By the time it was posted on that site - NYPD, 2 attorneys handling my divorce & custody of my children, my therapist, a marriage counselor, NYPD Computer Crimes (Dets. Smith & Herrera), an NYPD Victim's Advocate, the Manhattan District Attorney's Office and 3 other women had read them. Even the posts that I made them withhold. Everything. I was pretty much naked in terms of my involvement with this mess. I was too numb and traumatized.  

ARTICLE 1  
ARTICLE 2  
ARTICLE 3  
ARTICLE 4
ARTICLE 5 
 ARTICLE 6  

The Spring and Summer of 2005 NYPD and the Manhattan DA's office called me a number of times. This is what they were prosecuting and some of it had to do with what NYPD turned up on YWL: They used what I gave them and what they turned up to unlock a major case.  

Imagine how SHOCKED I was when I saw that in the paper. I called NYPD and they told me they were going to pass, as per my request, on prosecuting YWL but they had turned up even more because of what I gave them and some of it was key evidence in other large probes. They were not going to share the information with any other law enforcement because of the nature of the investigations (they were afraid of tipping off any of the other 'sex for money' businesses they were looking into I guess). The brothel here was the big fish - so they gave YWL a pass. I was relieved to know that his family would be o.k.  

I have gotten a lot of emails saying while I was involved with a wrongful online relationship, YWL was a john and may still be. I did what I had to do. I went to the police for a temporary order of protection after YWL threatened me. It snowballed from there. What I learned made me physically ill and I spent quite a bit of time in & out of the hospital.  

YWL coerced me into something really ugly. But no, I had no idea how ugly because my past experience with YWL led me to believe he was harmless. He certainly is very smart and savvy and I give him a lot of credit for his successes in life. Yes, I did request that the DA and NYPD NOT prosecute YWL for soliciting and trafficking on his lunch hours. Call me stupid but that wasn't my call. His family didn't deserve what he did. 

And if you think I am an idiot for making that request - then ok - I AM AN IDIOT. Computer Crimes was nice enough to help me out with Ms. Gluck's nonsense because they know I am credible and not some hysterical maniac. I personally have a blemishless record. I only have a couple parking tickets on my record. I was a paralegal for years and was licensed with the State. My fingerprints and information are on file. I couldn't lie even if I wanted to.  

Yes, YWL called what I sent his wife "prose" and continues to say I am lying and fabricating. Goodness knows what else he's told people about me. He's a consummate salesman so I would guess it's pretty nasty, whatever it is. What else could he say without exposing his true nature? He resented me in 1975 and he hates me now. I was never anything more than an awkward, protracted one-night stand. That's just a fact. I believe it and know it to be truth. YWL has proved it by his actions.  

The cops patrolled my home for many years to make sure I am ok. Because of my domestic violence work I have some very angry exes of women I know looking for me - so the precinct sends a car by every once in a while.
 

The story is out there - its been out there for years now. I know so many of you are telling me I was misled and so on. Yes I was. 

There comes a time when you have to grow up and TAKE RESPONSIBILITY FOR YOUR ACTIONS. But I will not take responsibility for things I did not do. 

  BTW, let me make this clear once and for all. Sexual stuff is extremely triggering for me. Don't tell me "never say never" - I am not interested. I can't look at porn at all... so WHY whoever put that porn site up did it -- I don't know!! Ugh!! YWL's hooker reviews caused me to vomit every time I saw them.They were depraved, objectifying, smarmy and complete filth.

Thank you NYPD CITU unit for helping me get that garbage taken down. 

I know I was a victim but I am also trying to keep others from being victimized. That's why I let that site publish my story. NOT for revenge, not to hurt anyone, not to end YWL's little lunchhour sex parties or his exploiting my friends with my good words about him, Because the only one who can really help him - is his wife.

That's the only reason why I told his wife - to help YWL STOP VICTIMIZING HIS FAMILY!
#ifmywoundswerevisible

THE CHAT YWL WANTS GONE, ERASED, SCRUBBED

Chat that YWL had with my best friend about the situation on March 17, 2004.

(Notice him "trying out new lies" to see what will fly!! He didn't realize she already knew everything and KNEW he was lying to her!)

Shira: hey YWL

YWL: I am an ass

Shira: well, ok

Shira: what makes you say that???

YWL: Its a long story

Shira: do tell

YWL: ok

YWL: I met someone online that I really care about

YWL: it happened after

YWL: well you know when I got upset that night

Shira: right

Shira: hey

Shira: remind me again why you got upset? I was never really clear on that

YWL: because honestly I felt that I was being toyed with.

YWL: anyway..Barabra and I stayed online that night (no we didn't -- I was online with Shira until 3am; YWL blocked me and went back to cybersex with Elizabeth... as I found out)  

YWL: very late

Shira: well you should have said something to us

Shira: we always joke around like that

YWL: I did

YWL: 'to Barbara

YWL: then I went away

Shira: right

YWL: and then when I got back I pulled away from Barbara

YWL: I had to it was making me crazy

Shira: what was making you crazy?

YWL: tension

YWL: we both wanted to sleep with each other but knew it could never happen (WTF? because I told him no way  LOL!)

YWL: we talked about it till like 3 in the morning

YWL: anyway I started talking to someone online and we got very close

YWL: I was even making a buisness trip to go meet her

YWL: Well yesterday her and Barbara talked and now they are both so hurt  (HURT?  Doesn't even start to cover it)

Shira: hang on - but you practically had to be coaxed out with a handful of sugar cubes to go meet Barbara for LUNCH!

YWL: no

YWL: I was supposed to see her next week

Shira: Yes, for the second time in 2 years

YWL: because I could deal with it now

YWL: now you know the reason I felt I couldn't

YWL: and now I have hurt her

YWL: now I have hurt Elizabeth

YWL: and most importantly I have lost her as a friend

YWL: I have been throwing up all morning

Shira: DESTROYED her, YWL. The word is DESTROYED. You have no idea the amount of abuse she puts up with in your name on a daily basis for something she never even did!

YWL: thats why I was reluctent to see her to make it worse and I have anyway

YWL: I cant throw up anymore

Shira: so don't throw up

YWL: Im so nauseous

Shira: so what are you going to do then?

YWL: I dont know

YWL: Shira -- I do love Barbara and dont want to lose her out of my life

YWL: I dont know what to do

YWL: except throw up

Shira: you love her?

YWL: yes but not in a romantic sense anymore. It started going away that night (again... going away... wtf is he TALKING ABOUT! LOL!)

Shira: so you did love her in a romantic sense at one point?

YWL: yes!

Shira: did you ever tell hr?

YWL: no

YWL: not exactly

Shira: well YWL you either tell someone you love them or you don't

YWL: no I didnt

YWL: but eveytime we tried to stop we couldnt

YWL: but I forced myself

Shira: you forced yourself?

Shira: Or you found it easier because you had someone else to play with?

YWL: no because that happened almost two month before I met

Shira: how did you meet her?

YWL: she commented on one off my articles so I sent her a thank you (that's a lie, even Elizabeth says in emails printed on this site I INTRODUCED THEM)

YWL: and she email back

Shira: you send thankyous to everyone who comments?

YWL: yes

YWL: I do  
YWL: read the bottom of one of my articles (great way to collect emails for future victims!)

YWL: it says right there

Shira: k

YWL: He reads and responds to all of his mail, so comment by here

Shira: oh, yeah, of course I remember now

YWL: and then we started emailing

YWL: and iming

YWL: and one thing led to another

Shira: YWL you do know Barbara loved you, and that for her love is something she tries to avoid because it has only ever brought her pain

YWL: until we had a big fight yesterday

YWL: I had a big fight with Elizabeth yesterday because.. she didnt want me to be friends with Barbara (again, I found out this is a massive lie too!  It was the OTHER WAY AROUND)  

YWL: and the rest as we say is history

Shira: how does she know Barbara?

YWL: they met on a newsgroup

Shira: oh, right

YWL: thats how she got to read mystuff

YWL: I asked Barbara if I could call her and she is ignoring me

OT1: well from the sound of it that's not surprising

YWL: she told Elizabeth that I said bad things about her which is not true

Shira: why would she lie?

YWL: I never said anything cause I knew it would hurt her (hurt? wtf? he just wanted to keep using & abusing me as he kept on smearing and lying about me to others.)

YWL: I swear

Shira: BARBARA DOESN'T LIE

YWL: I never discussed Elizabeth with Barbara (admission of lying and also notice how he leaves out that he's 'discussed' - lied about & smeared - me to Elizabeth to keep us from talking and finding out he's a predator who's been using both of us for his sexual fun & games!)

YWL: On my life (which life would that be?  the one your wife knows about or the one you have at Julie's or the one you have online....)

YWL: gtg

 

~~~~~ 

YWL: Barabar wouldnt pic up her mobile

Shira: well I did say to leave a message. She's a busy woman

YWL: I dont know

Shira: you know how it is...kids and all, also she's disabled, remember

YWL: Her vioce mail didnt pic up

YWL: I dont htink

YWL: I ddint hear a beeb

YWL: but Italked anyway

Shira: what'd you say?

YWL: I said that I didnt want to loseher from my life that she was too important and could we talk

Shira: YWL she's been awake for 30 hours

Shira: she's distraught

Shira: YWL

Shira: you've utterly destroyed any trust she had in you

Shira: you've made her feel used

YWL: I know

YWL: but I wasnt

YWL: I swear

Shira: you weren't what?

Shira: using her?

YWL: we were supposed to meet next week

Shira: so?

YWL: I asked her to keep the lucnh

YWL: so w can talk

Shira: you know, if I were her I wouldn't want to talk to you

Shira: I would feel very used and betrayed

YWL: I know

Shira: you were using her, weren't you

YWL: no

YWL: I wasnt

Shira: well; what else do you call cybersex with her, and then another woman, with no intention of anything else?

YWL: I told you how it happedn and they were sepreated by time

YWL: and there was an intention

Shira: what did you intend?

YWL: I had set up a trip to see Elizabeth

Shira: I meant MY friend, Barbara! Not your newest girlfriend, Elizabeth!

YWL: So you arent going to help me?

Shira: Help you!?

You've been lying and toying with Barbara for 2 years with no intention other than to twist her into knots and using her! So, what do you expect after what you've done to my best friend?

You lied about ME, too. 
I tell you what, YWL, you best be sh*tting yourself. You ********. And you call yourself a spiritual man. I think not. All you think about is your **** and I wish you everything you deserve. What a filthy lying s**tbag you are.