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Thursday, September 13, 2007


Innocence seldom utters outraged shrieks. Guilt does.

~ Whittaker Chambers


Remember this comment from here? Well, I got so many emails with resources on this one -- I am reposting this comment WITH the resources & comments. Not my words, the words of professionals & people like Kathy Krajco & Anna Valerious. Friends who are brutally honest with me and who GET IT! (YWL's original comments are in BLUE)
Yid With Lid said... Ok Barbara Enough! I got your two comments today and I am not posting YOU are just as guilty, YOU did not do this with your eyes closed, YOU were a married woman.
Demanding decent and respectful treatment is no excuse for the narcissist to attack you.
I don't care how "threatened" any of that makes the poor, twisted narcissist feel. His perverted feelings are HIS problem, not yours. Like Osama bin Wanton, he will never run out of twisted excuses to irrationalize his attacks on you, so get off the guilt trip. His perversity is not YOUR vice. Narcissists attack you just to do it. You are therefore 100% innocent of your victimization. **Blow off this absurd "It takes two to Tango" crap!**
But foggy-headed idiots (like those espousing the co-dependence theory) try to claim that you stop being a victim by pretending that you have never been made one. That's crazy. That is magical thinking, like the narcissist's. You HAVE been made a victim. That's a FACT, like it or not. And "victim" is not a dirty word. Though being a victim is nothing to aspire to and is something to avoid, being a victim is NOT a sin. It is nothing to be ashamed of. To the contrary, the most innocent are the most unsuspecting and most easily victimized ... until they have learned the hard way not to assume that other people are good.
You stop being a victim by wising up so that you are never again victimized. It requires nothing beyond COMMON SENSE to realize that. In some cases, the narcissist has stolen something of value from you, like your job or reputation - something you have every right to get back from the damned thief. You stop being a victim when you win justice and get it back, period. - Kathy Krajco

"you were a married woman" - YWL
Actually, I was estranged from my husband already when he looked me up on Classmates.com. I got this one in my email from a friend and was just STUNNED at how it fit:
Moral principles are a person’s sense of right and wrong. The women victims had high moral principles and an internal moral compass of right and wrong. Their moral sense and its relationship to a psychopath are quite interesting. Although many of them tested very high in the morality department, they ended up with the immoral and unprincipled psychopath. Psychopaths interestingly enough seem to want women who are highly moral for two reasons: The first is, he likes the image and status of himself with a moral person. She makes him look moral by his affiliation with her. Secondly, if she is highly moral, she will continue to adhere to her principles despite his behavior. She is not likely to “do unto him” as he has “done unto her.” For instance, although he cheats, she would be less likely to cheat.
In the relationship with the psychopath, she was likely to become mortified at the immoral behaviors he engaged in. Since psychopaths are chameleons, they pretend to be whatever their woman are. They mimicked the women’s own moral principles. Additionally, women in pathological relationships seem to project their normal characteristics onto the psychopath. She sees what she is, in him. Her ability to project and his ability to pretend, allow him the stage to mimic her moral principles in his life.
Ironically, many of the women’s stories end with the loss of their moral principles in the relationship. This could be through sexual deviance he asked her to participate in, or asking that she lie, steal, cheat, or in some other way violate her own moral code. By the end of the relationship, she was likely to have become mortified at his immoral behavior and how it took her down a negative path she never intended on. Her compassion is likely to keep her helping and supporting, all the way to the bitter end. The psychopath’s salesmanship has women believing that “just a little more” support/help/compassion/ empathy/tolerance will get him to the place that no other woman was able to help him get to. After all, she’s come this far and invested this much if just a little more investment will finally get her what she wants in him, then it’s worth it to just hang in there! Of course, it’s down the road that women realize that all the support in the world can’t change the incurableness of his pathology.
The sooner you move on with your life, the sooner you will heal physically, emotionally spiritually.- YWL
“I swore never to be silent whenever and wherever human beings endure suffering and humiliation. We must take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented. Sometimes we must interfere.” - Holocaust survivor Elie Wiesel.
As far as I am are concerned, I publicly confessed my iniquity, I publicly showed contriteness by baring my soul. - YWL
Abusers will minimize, justify, deny, distort, lie about and blame others for their behavior to escape consequences, It is our responsibility to hold them accountable. more from the Big Babies Club here
As far I am concerned you can continue dragging my name through the mud, while whitewashing your own responsibility. - YWL
"Manipulators often lie by withholding a significant amount of the truth. I have treated individuals who have lied most egregiously by reciting a litany of true facts!
How does someone lie by telling only true things? They do so by leaving out important other, important facts essential to understanding the truth of the whole story." In Sheep's Clothing, pg. 98
I am done playing your sick game. - YWL
Actually, the only one who ADMITTED IN WRITING that I supposedly "played HIS GAME" with him... was YWL! So, who was playing who? Can't assert one thing and then another when it's convenient... now can you? 

I don't see how seeking APPROPRIATE ACCOUNTABILITY & REPARATIONS is game playing.
What does facing the facts about narcissists teach us?
They act out of malice that envies everything in others, even self respect. It also teaches us not to let the holier-than-thous load a guilt trip on us for holding him or her accountable for damage done. It's just sanctimony. Which is phony. Narcissist sympathizers are a huge part of the problem. Blow them off. Misplaced love or sympathy or loyalty is vice, not a virtue.
And it's also stupid.

I WILL NO LONGER BE BULLIED BY YOU AND YOUR FRIENDS. I am dropping it--no more posts or comments. - YWL
The reasoning goes like this: So, the narcissist's abuse is nothing to get angry about? You are to act as though it didn't happen? In other words, you are to make nothing of it, right?

Wrong. For, if it is nothing, then you are nothing. Why? Because everybody knows that if I bash an object, that's nothing, but if I bash a human being, that's something.

If I step on a bug, that's nothing, but if I step on a human being, that's something.

Yet, no matter what, the do-gooders just don't get it — until they're the one that gets bashed. Then they see the degrading value judgment in making nothing of it. By telling you to make nothing of it, they are telling you that abusing you was nothing. That means you are nothing. Indeed, if your abuser bashed your automobile, they wouldn't tell you to make nothing of it, would they? An automobile is a thing of value, so harm done to it requires reparation.

But, harm done to you is nothing, eh? What a dehumanizing value judgment.

And it lands on top of the one the narcissist dumped on you. Feel better now? First he got on your back, and now they pile on too. The holier-than-thous should be criticizing the abuser's behavior, not the victim's. There's a name for people like that, "Job's Comforters" or "troublesome comforters." That's what I mean when I say that people saying stuff like this do more harm than good. Pound, pound, pound, they all pound you down with that club that says

Doing that to you was nothing = You are nothing. And it's a sin for you to not cover up for him by acting like it didn't happen.

Just what you needed to hear, right? So, who's side are they really on? whether they realize it or not? Hard to take, isn't it? What a heartless thing to do to someone already down. Why can't they just break down and say that it causes them sorrow to hear what was done to you and that it really sucked? Then all they'd have to do is act like you mean something to them. Why is that asking too much? Why do you get all that other crap instead? Sometimes I think they just don't want your sad face to rain on their day. I think it's for their sake that they want you to take Prozac. They just want you to make it go away, to act like it didn't happen. If it's a sin to even be angry about degrading treatment, then what can you do to contradict the humiliating value judgment in it? Nothing. If merely feeling an emotion is stepping off the straight-and-narrow, what could they give you permission to do? Nothing!
Ah, it seems to me that the one whose hands they should tie is your abuser, not you. This way they are accessories to mayhem. The more you think about it, the more ridiculous the moralizing gets, doesn't it? Parrots who get their morality from prime-time TV thus deny you the most basic human right — the right to protect yourself. Just what kind of person would docilely accept abuse? would make nothing of it? A person who thinks he or she is entitled to better treatment? A person who thinks anything of him- or her-self? A person with any self-respect? any dignity? integrity? a backbone?

If you are the victim of a narcissist, you know that your anger is your assertion of your self-worth.

Sounders like to sound good by making others sound bad for not taking an affront to their human dignity as though it were nothing. Is that not rubbing the victim's nose in it? That's what it feels like. It's no longer just the narcissist abusing you, the whole world piles on to stifle your objection.
(and btw Yidwithlid has NEVER dropped it!!)

When you decide that the health of your kids are worth more than your bruised ego, you will drop it too, - YWL  

My 'bruised ego'? Now he's giving psychological advice?? ROFL. Talk about PROJECTION. In case YWL missed it the last time: 

If you are the victim of a narcissist, you know that your anger is your assertion of your self-worth.  
"This is why every malignant narcissist is also a character assassin. His or her line is "I'm good because So-and-So is bad." The narcissist attacked just to do it, and he or she attacks any prey they have some unfair advantage over. They never pick a fair fight. They are bullies, period. They do it to vaunt themselves on others. It gives them a high. Like as in a high from a hit on drug. Does this mean you are a saint? Of course not. Does it mean you have never said or done anything iwith a narcissist that you should regret? Of course not.- Kathy Krajco
...until then regardless of how much abuse you and your friends choose to heap on me I will not react. - YWL
"The disturbed character always wants things the easy way. He hates to accept obligation. He gets far more joy out of 'conning' people. - George Simon IN SHEEP'S CLOTHING
Many offenders are fond of saying, “But I didn’t mean it that way” or “I never meant for that to happen” . BUT INTENT IS NOT THE ISSUE. RESULTS ARE... ...Everybody makes mistakes. Where most of us begin to lose our patience is with those who never LEARN from their “mistakes”- this tells us that these are not really “mistakes” at all, but rather ongoing patterns of behavior. If something is truly accidental or inadvertent, an accountable adult has no problem sincerely apologizing, doing whatever he can to fix the situation, and moving on. Mature adults do not have a problem apologizing for errors in judgment, or innocent mistakes that caused harm to others. There is no guilt or shame attached to a truly unintentional offense. Those who feel guilty and ashamed avoid taking responsibility. One who did wrong deliberately, selfishly, or with malicious intent will be ashamed when he is caught or confronted, so he will not admit what he did. He will try to hide it, make excuses, or in some way weasel out of being accountable for her own behavior.

He will be angry and flustered at being caught when she thought he was getting away with it. He will not admit he was wrong, he will not sincerely apologize, and he will not try to rectify the damage he did.

The reason guilt or shame is felt is that, despite what the offender might say, his words or actions WERE INTENTIONAL, or at the very least, SELFISH. One way or the other, he knew what he was doing and the effects it might have, but he decided to do it anyway, and hope for the best. Otherwise he would have nothing to feel guilty about and no problem acting in a responsible manner and making amends. His ego would not be at stake, and he would not react with the shame of someone who was “caught” doing wrong.

One who feels guilty or ashamed will lie, deny, cover-up, blame others- anything but admit that he was wrong and take responsibility for his own words or actions.

A little something for YWL:




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